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John Miller Elgin Grade Summary

Here are my notes about the serial number counts created by John Miller and published in Roy Ehrhardt's "Elgin Watch Company" book.

This file consists of short notes about particular grades and what errors I could find. Each group starts out with two lines about the grade in question. The first line shows my records of the grade, the second line shows the numbers that John Miller came up with. Following these grade lines are comments about the discrepancy.

I guess a final comment on the subject: I list a lot of errors in John's work while I list none in mine and that might make John's work sound unreliable. Actually, I am quite impressed with his work. Of course I resolved all the errors in my work by checking against his, I just didn't keep notes about my errors.

        

     
          
          
who   grade total runs   first sn  last sn class  size   code  jewels  Adj/name
mine  100    5000   4    1857001   2228000   12    18s  c3g6p     15j ?
EWC   100    7000   5    1857001   7223000   12    18s  c3g6p     15j ?

error in EWC:
	7223000 is grade 109, not grade 100



mine  109  315000  68    4212001   8219000   60     0s  h3g1p      7j
EWC   109  313000  67    4212001   8219000   60     0s  h3g1p      7j

error in EWC:
	7223000 is grade 109, not grade 100



mine  148   33885  34-3  5917001  11881000    9    18s  ofn5p  15-17j Adj / GMW
EWC   148   33786  30    5917001  11881000    9    18s  ofn5p  15-17j Adj / GMW

error in EWC:
	this is related to the 283 problems as many of the 148 runs
	were split into 148/283.  See the 283 description



mine  251    3100   2    8692001   9786100   61    18s  hfg2l      7j
EWC   251    3900   2    8692001   9787000   61    18s  hfg2l      7j

error in EWC:
	this is related to the 309 problems.  The ending SN is
	wrong. this run was split into 251/309 and it looks like John
	Miller took the wrong group



mine  283     115   4    9088021  10710125   66    18s  ofn7l     17j ?
EWC   283    3214   5    9088022  23145000   66    18s  ofn7l     17j ?

error in EWC:
	starting SN is wrong, it really is 9088021 ending SN is wrong,
	23142001-23145000 are grade 288 it appears that John Miller
	shifted an extra 100 from 148 to 283, I don't know where.
	


mine 286  354000 225   10652001  31989000  115     6s  h3n2p      7j
EWC  286  355000 226   10652001  31989000  115     6s  h3n2p      7j
       
unresolved:
	can't explain the missing run of -1000

	Maybe one of the runs of 386 was counted as grade 286?



mine 287  110000  74   10656001  15883000  105    18s  hfn2l      7j
EWC  287  111000  75   10656001  32657000  105    18s  hfn2l      7j
       
error in EWC:
	the last run from 32656001-32657000 is grade 387 not grade 287



mine 288  523100 296   10660001  32149000  106    18s  ofn5p      7j
EWC  288  528800 295   10660001  32149000  106    18s  ofn5p      7j

error in EWC:
      One run (23142001-23145000) was mislisted as being 283, so the
      extra run can be explained and the +3000 difference

       

mine 289  324000 181   10666001  24480000  115     6s  h3g2p      7j
EWC  289  321000 181   10666001  24480000  115     6s  h3g2p      7j

unresolved:
	can't explain the +3000 difference here



mine 291 1501000 425   10674001  43622000  110    16s  o3n7p      7j
EWC  291 1521500 425   10674001  43622000  110    16s  o3n7p      7j

error in EWC:
	There is a gap at 35604001-35624000 which is right next to a
	run of 291.  This gap isn't in John's list of 699, so that
	accounts for the 20000

	There is a gap at 36833501 36834000 500 which is right next to
	a run of 291.  This gap isn't in John's list of 699, so that
	accounts for the 500




mine 303 2215000 371   10687001  38425000  114    12s  o3n3p      7j
EWC  303 2216000 371   10687001  38425000  114    12s  o3n3p      7j

unresolved:
	can't explain the -1000 difference here
	
	I suspect this is related to grade 313 as runs of these two
	grades were often right next to each other and a simple off by
	one error in the SN could cause this.  I don't know if it is
	an error in my DB or John's.



mine 309  134900  65    9786101  15589000  105    18s  hfg2l      7j
EWC  309  134100  65    9786001  15589000  105    18s  hfg2l      7j

error in EWC:
	this is related to the 251 problems.  The starting run is
	wrong. this run was split into 251/309 and it looks like John
	Miller took the wrong group

       

mine 313  524000 278   10235001  35972000  110    16s  o3n7p     15j
EWC  313  523000 278   10235001  35972000  110    16s  o3n7p     15j
       
unresolved:
	can't explain the +1000 difference here
	
	I suspect this is related to grade 303 as runs of these two
	grades were often right next to each other and a simple off by
	one error in the SN could cause this.  I don't know if it is
	an error in my DB or John's.



mine 344  164700 153   12248501  30723000  113    12s  h3n2p     17j ?
EWC  344  165100 153   12248501  30723000  113    12s  h3n2p     17j ?

probable error in EWC:
	the run from 25398001-25398400 is grade 476 not grade 344,
	which explains the -400 difference.

       

mine 345  736900 205   11796501  33866000  114    12s  o3n3p     17j
EWC  345  737100 205   11796501  33866000  114    12s  o3n3p     17j

probable error in EWC
	It looks like run from 25404001-25404200 of grade 477 was
	counted as grade 345



mine 386  113700 108   15543001  28573000  109    16s  h3n6p     17j
EWC  386  113000 107   15543001  28573000  109    16s  h3n6p     17j

unresolved:
	can't explain the extra run of +700
	
	Maybe the run at 25328301-25329001 was counted as grade 386
	instead of grade 474 as they are right next to each other.

	Maybe one of the runs of 386 was counted as grade 286?




mine 387  357700 228   15544001  43620000  110    16s  o3n7p     17j
EWC  387  357000 227   15544001  43620000  110    16s  o3n7p     17j

error in EWC:
	the run from 32656001-32657000 is grade 387 not grade 287, which
        explains the extra run, but adds 1000, which is 300 too much.

	the run from 24771001-24771300 is grade 475 not grade 387,
        which explains the -300

	So, together these errors explain the "extra run of +700"



mine 469  166800  51   22027001  42992000   ?     16s  s3f21p     7j ?
EWC  469  196800  51   22027001  42992000   ?     16s  s3f21p     7j ?

unresolved:
	can't explain the -30000 difference here
	
	Maybe the run from 41004001-41034000 which is a hole (grade 0)
	was counted as grade 469?  There are also a couple of holes of
	25000-2700 and a bunch of 1000-2000, so maybe it is a
	combination of those?

        

mine 471  377500  68   24312001  37004000   ?     37s  o3n1p      7j
EWC  471  371500  67   24312001  37004000   ?     37s  o3n1p      7j

unresolved:
	can't explain the extra run of +6000



mine 474     300   1   25328001  25328300   ?     16s  ?????      ?j
mine 475     300   1   24771001  24771300   ?     16s  ?????      ?j
mine 476     400   1   25398001  25398400   ?     12s  o3n3p      ?j

error in EWC
	these grades really do have these runs, but are missing in EWC



mine 477   28200  26   25404001  29484000   ?     12s  o3n3p     17j A3P /
EWC  477   28000  26   25404001  29484000   ?     12s  o3n3p     17j A3P /

probable error in EWC
	It looks like run from 25404001-25404200 of grade 477 was
	counted as grade 345



mine 478  185400  90   25678001  42372000   ?     16s  o3n15l    21j A5P / BWR
EWC  478  184500  90   25678001  42372000   ?     16s  o3n15l    21j A5P / BWR

unresolved:
	can't explain the +900 difference here

	It looks like a lot of 478 runs were split into a pair of
	900/100 runs with 506 with the 506 run being the 100.

	maybe John got confused and miss-added one of these?



mine 480  196000  43   25369001  29700000   ?     16s  ?????      7j
EWC  480  198000  42   25369001  29700000   ?     16s  ?????      7j

unresolved:
	can't explain the extra run of -2000 here.  (would expect this to be
        positive because of the extra run)



mine 483  172000  73-1 28421001  37876000   ?   18/0s  -????     17j ?
EWC  483  177000  74   28421001  37876000   ?   18/0s  -????     17j ?

unresolved:
	can't explain the missing two runs of -5000 here



mine 484  557000  86-1 29164001  37885000   ?   18/0s  -3n?p     15j
EWC  484  548000  84   29164001  37885000   ?   18/0s  -3n?p     15j

error in EWC:
	the first run of 485 starts at 31599001.  It looks like John
        Miller merged the run for grade 484 which starts at 31590001
        in with the first run of 485.  This explains the extra run of
        +9000



mine 485  891000  52   31599001  35923000   ?      ?s  ?????      ?j
EWC  485  900000  52   31590001  35923000   ?      ?s  ?????      ?j

error in EWC:
	the first run of 485 starts at 31599001.  It looks like John
        Miller merged the run for grade 484 which starts at 31590001
        in with the first run of 485.  This explains the missing -9000



mine 488 1284000  95   31601001  37899000   ?   18/0s  -3f?p      7j
EWC  488 1282800  94   31601001  37899000   ?   18/0s  -3f?p      7j

unresolved:
	can't explain the extra run of +1200

        I suspect that this is related to grade 514.  There are the
	follow two runs:

	34557001 34558800   1800      1933 488 18/0s -3f?p       7j *
	34558801 34559000    200      1933 514 18/0s s????       7j *

	Maybe John got confused and miss-added?



mine 492  144000  29   34568001  35992000   ?   20/0s  -????     17j ?
EWC  492  164000  29   34568001  35992000   ?   20/0s  -????     17j ?

probable error in EWC
	There is a gap at 35563001-35583000 which is right next to a
	run of 492.  This gap isn't in John's list of 699, so that
	accounts for the 20000



mine 493   14700  10   33655001  34681000   ?     22s  o3f1p      7j
EWC  493   15700  11   33593001  34681000   ?     22s  o3f1p      7j

error in EWC
	the starting run at 33593001-33594000 is grade 499, not 493.
	this explains the missing run of -1000



mine 499    5000   4   33312001  33594000   ?    6/0s  ?????     19j ?
EWC  499    4000   3   33312001  33508000   ?    6/0s  ?????     19j ?
        
error in EWC
	the run 33593001-33594000 is grade 499, not 493.  this
        explains the extra run of +1000



mine 506    4600  10   33814901  34575000   ?     16s  ?????     21j ? / BWR
EWC  506    5500  10   33814901  34575000   ?     16s  ?????     21j ? / BWR
        
unresolved:
	can't explain the -900 difference here

	It looks like a lot of 478 runs were split into a pair of
	900/100 runs with 506 with the 506 run being the 100.

	maybe John got confused and miss-added one of these?

        

mine 514    1000   3   34515001  34847200   ?   18/0s  s????      7j
EWC  514    1200   3   34515001  34847200   ?   18/0s  s????      7j

unresolved
	can't explain the -200 difference here

        I suspect that this is related to grade 514.  There are the
	follow two runs:

	34557001 34558800   1800      1933 488 18/0s -3f?p       7j *
	34558801 34559000    200      1933 514 18/0s s????       7j *

	Maybe John got confused and miss-added?



mine 532   18900  15   37058001  39154000   ?    8/0s  s3n??     16j ?
EWC  532   19000  15   37058001  39154000   ?    8/0s  s3n??     16j ?

probable error in EWC
	It looks like the run of 545 from 38402001-38402100 was counted as
        grade 532.  This explains the -100 difference

        

mine 533  243000  30   36978001  38992000   ?   21/0s  -3f?p     17j A1P / DLX
EWC  533  223000  28   36978001  38992000   ?   21/0s  -3f?p     17j A1P / DLX

unresolved:
	the run from 37308001-37322000 is grade 533 not 538

	can't explain the other extra run of +6000

	I suspect that the run 38192001-38198000 was counted as grade
        553 instead of grade 533.  The area looks like this:

	38173001 38175000   2000  DLX 1938 533 21/0s -3f?p      17j  A1P  f *
	38175001 38192000  17000      1938   0    ?s ??????      0j  ?  ? *
	38192001 38198000   6000  DLX 1938 533 21/0s -3f?p      17j  A1P  f *

	


EWC  538   14000   1   37308001  37322000   ?   15/0s  ?????     23j ?

error in EWC:
	the starting run at 37308001-37322000 is grade 533 not 538



mine 545     100   1   38402001  38402100   ?      ?s  ?????      ?j ?
EWC  none

error in EWC
	This run does exist.

        

mine 553    5000   4   37939001  38783000   ?     22s  s3n1p     16j ?
EWC  553   11000   5   37939001  38783000   ?     22s  s3n1p     16j ?

unresolved:
	can't explain the missing run of -6000
        
	I suspect that the run 38192001-38198000 was counted as grade
        553 instead of grade 533.  The area looks like this:

	38173001 38175000   2000  DLX 1938 533 21/0s -3f?p      17j  A1P  f *
	38175001 38192000  17000      1938   0    ?s ??????      0j  ?  ? *
	38192001 38198000   6000  DLX 1938 533 21/0s -3f?p      17j  A1P  f *


mine 582  206200  38   39861001  43291000   ?     16s  s3f21pj   15j
EWC  582  366200  38   39861001  43291000   ?     16s  s3f21pj   15j

unresolved:
	can't explain the -160000 difference

	Maybe the run from 40302001-40462000 which is a hole (grade 0)
	was counted as grade 582?  There are also a bunch of other
	holes that could add up to this.



mine 626       1   1   49000000  49000000   ?   15/0s  h3f?p     21j A1P / LE
mine 670       1   1   50000000  50000000   ?   15/0s  h3f?p     21j Adj / LE

Not really an error:
	It looks like these two runs are counted in with the "letter" section.



mine   0 10392498  86   35563001  50000000   ?      ?s  ??????     ?j
EWC   699 3789000  78   38003001  43613000   ?      ?s  ??????     ?j
	
unresolved:

        note: Grades "0" and "699" are special "grades" used to
        accurate the gaps that Elgin has in their serial number lists.


	There is a gap at 35563001-35583000 which is right before a
	run of 492.  This gap isn't in John's list of 699, so that
	accounts for the 20000

	There is a gap at 35604001-35624000 which is right before a
	run of 291.  This gap isn't in John's list of 699, so that
	accounts for the 20000

	There is a gap at 36833501 36834000 which is right before a
	run of 291.  This gap isn't in John's list of 699, so that
	accounts for the 500

	There is a gap at 43627001 48999999 which isn't in John's list
	of 699, so that accounts for the 5372999
	
	There is a gap at 49000001 49999999 which isn't in John's list
	of 699, so that accounts for the 999999

	There is a gap at 50000001 for zero watches which isn't in
	John's list of 699, so that accounts for one run.

	so far, this adds up to 6 runs and 6413498 total
	still missing 2 runs and 190000 total

        
        possible explanations:
	
	Maybe the gap at 41004001-41034000 which is right before a run
	of grade 469 was counted as grade 469?

	Maybe the gap at 40302001-40462000 which is right before a run
	of grade 582 was counted as grade 582?
	
	These two possible ones add up to exactly 190000 runs.



mine 533  877000  42-1   C75001   N500000   ?   21/0s  -3f?p     17j A1P / DLX
EWC  533  874000  41     C75001   N500000   ?   21/0s  -3f?p     17j A1P / DLX

unresolved:
	can't explain the +3000 difference

        

mine 554 1298000  59    X609001   F937000   ?    8/0s  ?????     21j ? / LE
EWC  554 1299000  58    X609001   F937000   ?    8/0s  ?????     21j ? / LE

unresolved:
	can't explain the extra run of -1000  (would expect this to be
        positive because of the extra run)

	Maybe it is these runs?
	  L30001   L60000  30000   LE 1944 554  8/0s ?????      21j  ?  f
	  L60001   L61000   1000      1944   0    ?s ??????      0j  ?  ? *
	  L61001   L98000  37000   LE 1944 554  8/0s ?????      21j  ?  f

	This would explain the "extra" run of -1000...


mine 559  517000  36-1  X672001   U946000   ?   15/0s  h3f3p     21j A1P / LE
EWC  559  519000  34    X672001   U946000   ?   15/0s  h3f3p     21j A1P / LE

unresolved:
	can't explain the extra run of -2000  (would expect this to be
        positive because of the extra run)



mine 619  635000  37    X682001   V489000   ?   21/0s  -????      ?j
EWC  619  646000  37    X682001   V489000   ?   21/0s  -????      ?j

unresolved:
	can't explain the -11000 difference


	This looks suspicious:
	 E782001  E792000  10000      1944 617 21/0s -????       0j *
	 E792001  E803000  11000      1944   0    ?s ??????      0j  ?  ? *
	 E803001  E813000  10000      1944 619 21/0s -????       0j *



mine 626  441000  19-1  J313001   F402000   ?   15/0s  h3f?p     21j A1P / LE
EWC  626  441001  19    J313001   F402000   ?   15/0s  h3f?p     21j A1P / LE

not really an error:
	Elgin doc lists one run of 1 as 49000000 and I guess John
	counted it in with the "letter" section.


        
mine 670   31000   2    F402001   F729000   ?   15/0s  h3f?p     21j Adj / LE
EWC  670   31001   3    F402001   F729000   ?   15/0s  h3f?p     21j Adj / LE

not really an error:
	Elgin doc lists one run of 1 as 50000000 and I guess John
	counted it in with the "letter" section.


mine   0 1629000  90    X172001   F999999   ?      ?s  ??????     ?j
EWC  699 1621000  77

unresolved:

	13 are related to the end of letter ranges

	Maybe one extra run at L60001-L61000 related to grade 554?
	This explains +1000

	Maybe one missing run at E792001-E803000 related to grade 619
	this explains +10000

	but this is +4000 more than we want.  Hmmm....


	

While I'm not an expert, I believe the information on this page is correct. Please send suggestions and corrections to the webmaster.
This web site runs on 100% Open Source Software. This web page was last changed on 10/04/2002 at 08:57:11.