# # Legal stuff: # # Copyright (C) 1999, 2000 Wayne Schlitt (wayne@midwestcs.com) # This file is covered under the "GPL" as defined below. # # A list of "facts" can not be copyrighted, so the "facts" in this database # can be freely extracted and used in whatever form you wish. That includes # using it in proprietary software that you sell for profit. # # However, comments and such can be copyrighted. Further, after a private # dicussion with Richard Stallman, I have been convinced that this text file # is really the "source code" to the database that is created in memory by # the pw_elgin program. As such, it can be licensed under the Free Software # Foundation's "General Public Licenses" (aka GPL). # # In short, what this means is you can use this database as a start # for what ever you want to do with it, and you can change it any way # you want to. However if you redistribute it to anyone else, then # that other person has the right to ask for a copy of the database in the # "source code form" with any modifications that you have made. Further # the person you redistribute this database too is then free to use the # modified database in anyway they want, subject to the GPL. # # If you do not want to have to distribute your modified version of # this database under the General Public License, you must strip out # any parts that may be under a copyright. I will not help you determine # how to do identify the copyrighted information, nor how to strip it. # I will, however, try to help anyone who feels that the GPL has been # violated. # # The following is a copy of the General Public License that this source # for the Elgin Grade Number database is distributed under # # # GNU GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE # Version 2, June 1991 # # Copyright (C) 1989, 1991 Free Software Foundation, Inc. # 675 Mass Ave, Cambridge, MA 02139, USA # Everyone is permitted to copy and distribute verbatim copies # of this license document, but changing it is not allowed. # # Preamble # # The licenses for most software are designed to take away your # freedom to share and change it. By contrast, the GNU General Public # License is intended to guarantee your freedom to share and change free # software--to make sure the software is free for all its users. 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See the # GNU General Public License for more details. # # You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License # along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software # Foundation, Inc., 675 Mass Ave, Cambridge, MA 02139, USA. # # Also add information on how to contact you by electronic and paper mail. # # If the program is interactive, make it output a short notice like this # when it starts in an interactive mode: # # Gnomovision version 69, Copyright (C) 19yy name of author # Gnomovision comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY; for details type `show w'. # This is free software, and you are welcome to redistribute it # under certain conditions; type `show c' for details. # # The hypothetical commands `show w' and `show c' should show the appropriate # parts of the General Public License. Of course, the commands you use may # be called something other than `show w' and `show c'; they could even be # mouse-clicks or menu items--whatever suits your program. # # You should also get your employer (if you work as a programmer) or your # school, if any, to sign a "copyright disclaimer" for the program, if # necessary. Here is a sample; alter the names: # # Yoyodyne, Inc., hereby disclaims all copyright interest in the program # `Gnomovision' (which makes passes at compilers) written by James Hacker. # # , 1 April 1989 # Ty Coon, President of Vice # # This General Public License does not permit incorporating your program into # proprietary programs. If your program is a subroutine library, you may # consider it more useful to permit linking proprietary applications with the # library. If this is what you want to do, use the GNU Library General # Public License instead of this License. # # Format of this file: # # lines beginning with a '#' are comments lines, blank lines are # ignored. Comments starting in the first column are for describing the # contents of the file. Comments starting after the first column (that is, # they have a tab or spaces before the '#') refer to the preceding grade # data and will be listed in the search output if the "verbose" setting is # high enough. # # Data lines contain the following information, separated by spaces: # # grade The grade number for this info # # class The class that this grade belongs to, or '?" if unknown # # dial_size The size of the dial that this grade uses, or '?' if # unknown # # mvt_size The size of the actual movement. If same as dial size # then use '-'. # # plate The plate layout: # fp full plate # 3/4 3/4 plate # ? unknown # # style The "style" of the movement: # h Hunter Case (second 90 deg to pendant) # hb Hunter Case Bridge layout # o Open Face (second opposite pendant) # ob Open Face Bridge layout # c Convertible (either OF or HC) # cb Convertible Bridge layout # s Sweep Second (second in center) # - No second hand # ? Unknown # # Keywind watches are listed as "hunter case" because # that is how Elgin listed them. # # Keywind, convertable and sweep second watches could # be put into either hunter or open face cases. # # finish The type of finish applied to the movement: # g Gilded # n Nickel damaskeening # t Two-tone damaskeening # f Flat/matte nickel finish # ? Unknown # # model Model number. May be a range such as 2-4 # # setting How the watch is wound and set # k Key wind/key set # l Pendant wind, lever set # p Pendant wind and set # a Automatic wind, pendant set # h Hack setting, pendant wind # ? Unknown # # Some grades were "transitional", and had both keywind # parts, and could be wound by the pendant. # # train Train speed # s Slow train: 4.5 beats per second # q Quick train: 5 beats per second # b This model was made as both slow and # quick train # f fast train: 5.5 beats per second # v very fast train: 6 beast per second # j "Jitter bug" 40 beats per second # ? Unknown # # jewels Number of jewels. May be a range such as 13-15 # # adjustments Number of adjustments. May be a range as in A1P-A3P # # A watch can be adjusted to heat, cold, isochronism # and the 6 faces (positions) of a cube. # # The two temperature adjustments require either # a "split balance wheel", or materials that # don't change with temperature such as "invar". # A split balance isn't enough, however, to make # it fully compensated. You also have correctly # place the timing screws. So some watches are # marked as being "temperature adjusted" # # Isochronism is the ability of the watch to # keep the same time when fully wound as when it # is wound down. This is done by selecting the # right materials for the hairspring, the # mainspring, by shaping the hairspring, and # sometimes adding things like stop works and/or # fuses. In practice, no watch is really # isochronic and it is not clear to me what # watch manufactures actually mean by this. # # Adjusting a watch to positions requires # correct oiling, the shaping of the ends of the # pinions, and adjusting the spread of the curb # pins. (among other things.) # # Elign frequently marks watches as having "x # adjustments", where 'x' is some number greater # than three. This means that it has been # adjusted to temperature (2 adjustments), # isochronism (1 adjustment) and x-3 positions. # # For this database, I always translate this # into the AnP form. # # Until around 1910 or so, Elgin just marked # their movements as "adjusted", and did not # list the number of positions. How many # adjustments Elgin made varied by the grade of # the watch. I think that watches marked # "adjusted" were always at least A1P, but I'm # not certain. # # U Unadjusted # A Adjusted (number of positions unknown) # AT Adjusted to temperature # AP Adjusted to positions # AnP Adjusted to 'n' positions # # wi_avail Is a wind indicator available for this grade? # - no, no wind indicator option # WI yes, this grade had wind indicators # # wind_hrs Number of hours that the watch would run when wound. # A value of '-' means the default of 32 or 40, I'm not # sure which. # # regulator Type of regulator: # f The regulator can be freely moved # e The standard "elgin style" micrometric # regulator. The regulator is held in # place by a "spool" shaped nut that is # threaded on a curved rod. Precise # adjustments can be made by turning the # nut. # r The "railroad patent regulator". This # is similar to the standard "elgin" # style regulator, except that it has a # spring under the balance cock that # holds the regulator to one side of the # regulator nut. This makes adjusting # even more accurate. # o The "old style regulator". This is # found on some early 16s watches before # the standard "elgin" style came out. # it has a screw on the balance cock # that can force the regulator in one # direction only. # b the "ball style" regulator which has # a 'J' shaped spring on top of the # balance cock and a screw to move the # regulator back and forth. # # barrel The type of mainspring barrel the watch has # gb The normal "going barrel" # mb The "motor barrel". It can be # distinguished by the 3 screws on the # top of the barrel # jb The Jewelled "motor barrel". Like # the motor barrel, but with a jewelled # staff to reduce friction. # # names The names that this watch was called by. Most # pocket watches would have this name engraved on the # movement, while wrist watches usually just had the # name on the dial instead. The same grade was sometimes # labelled several different names, with some names # being much rarer than others. # # If a grade could either be named, or nameless, then # the name of '-' is used to say that it was nameless. # # comments There are optional comments that start with a '#'. # This comments will always be listed in the "notes" # listing for this grade. # # Following the data line, there can be additional grade specific # comment lines. These lines have blanks or tabs before the '#' and these # comments will be listed in the search output if the "verbose" setting # is high enough. # # APWB-E pg 129 # grade class dial_size mvt_size plate style finish model setting train jewels adjustments wi_avail wind_hrs regulator barrel names comments #pg 1 1 25 16 - 3/4 h g 3 l q 7 U - - f gb # single plate or train&barrel bridges? 2 25 16 - 3/4 h g 3 l q 13-15 U - - o gb # REG_FREE also # SN1467176 seen as 13j on ebay 172709099 # SN6350758 seen as having a train and a barrel bride, 15j, *not* marked "adjusted" and *doesn't* have the steel washer on the barrel on ebay 218385584 # SN630241 seen as 13j and has a steel washer on the barrel, *not* marked "adjusted" on ebay 237079636 # SN630244 seen as 13j REG_FREE, w/ a steel washer on the barrel and *not* marked "adjusted" on eay 246188115 # SN4093575 seen as having a train and a barrel bride, 15j, *not* marked "adjusted" and *doesn't* have the steel washer on the barrel on ebay 230803909 # SN6350273 seen as having a train and a barrel bride, 15j, *not* marked "adjusted" and *doesn't* have the steel washer on the barrel, does have REG_OLD_RR_PAT on ebay 310334765 3 24 16 - 3/4 h g 3 l q 15 A - - ? gb # SN2924654 seen marked as "15j Adjusted REG_OLD_RR_PAT" and *doesn't* have the steel washer on the barrel on ebay 202488768 # SN627525 seen marked as "15j Adjusted REG_FREE" and has the steel washer on the barrel on ebay 245557274 # SN3917482 seen as having a train and a barrel bridge, 15j, REG_OLD_RR_PAT and marked "Adjusted" on ebay 242037751 # SN1596805 seen as having a train and a barrel bridge, 15j, REG_OLD_RR_PAT and marked "Adjusted" on ebay 274792701 cant tell if it has a steel washer, 'cause the barrel bridge (and barrel, and other parts) are missing # SN627695 seen as having a train and a barrel bridge, 15j, REG_FREE, steel barrel washer and marked adjusted on ebay 292467388 # SN1591318 seen with REG_OLD_RR_PAT on ebay 305585767 # SN2141385 seen with REG_OLD_RR_PAT on ebay 309511424 # SN2142769 seen with REG_OLD_RR_PAT on ebay 317287582 4 24 16 - 3/4 h n 3 l q 15 A - - ? gb # single plate or train&barrel bridges? # SN2679096 seen marked as "Adjusted" on ebay 219452692 # SN1171031 seen marked as "Adjusted" and has a "steel barrel washer" on ebay 242319951 # SN1328680 seen marked as "Adjusted" and has a "steel barrel washer", but has a REG_FREE on ebay 258119963 # SN4991372 seen as having a train and a barrel bridge, REG_OLD_RR_PAT on ebay 253963860 # SN804778 seen marked as "Adjusted", has a "steel barrel washer" and a train and a barrel bridge, but has a REG_FREE on www.pmtime.com/pockets/elgin/pm670a.htm # SN5101144 seen marked as "Adjusted", does *not* have a "steel barrel washer", does have a train and a barrel bridge, and has a REG_OLD_RR_PAT on ebay 308271859 # SN3785020 seen with a REG_OLD_RR_PAT on ebay 311278973 # SN628336 seen marked as "Adjusted", has a "steel barrel washer" and a train and a barrel bridge, but has a REG_FREE on ebay 318984488 5 5 18 - fp h n 2-4 l b 11 U - - f gb 6 6 18 - fp h g 2-4 l s 7 U - - f gb 7 6 18 - fp h g 1 k s 7 U - - f gb 8 5 18 - fp h g 2-4 l s 7 U - - f gb OGD - AGE # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies this might be marked AGE(6), CHF(6) # APWB-E says some of these are marked "Age" ca1874-1878 # SN57862[38] seen as "AGE 7j" does *not* have an elgin hairspring stud on ebay 322715102 9 5 18 - fp h g 2-4 l s 7 U - - f gb # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies this might be marked AGE(6), CHF(6) 10 5 18 - fp h g 2-4 l b 11 U - - f gb # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies this might be marked ADV(4), OGD(4) 11 15 17 - fp h g 2 l s 7 U - - f gb LED # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies this might be marked LED(4) # SN507387 seen marked as "Leader" on ebay 197810385 12 5 18 - fp h g 1 k s 7-11 U - - f gb OGD FAR FGO - AGE CHF # the cuts in the 1871 almanac seem to imply that: # OGD has 3 jewels visible on the top plate, the escape wheel is not drawn. (so it might be 11j or 15j) w/ compensated balance # FAR has jewels on the 3rd & 4th wheel, and a solid balance # FGO has no jewels visible and a solid balance # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies this might be marked AGE(6), CHF(6), FGO(3) # APWB-E says some of these are marked "Age" ca1868-1877 # SN266233 seen marked "MDOgden" and either 11j or 15j (said to be 11j) on ebay 228931975 # 11j contradicts the 1915 doc that says only 7 jewels 13 5 18 - fp h g 1 k b 11 U - - f gb - ADV # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies this might be marked ADV(4), FAR(2), OGD(4) # SN1246903 seen as nameless on ebay 209074309 14 15 17 - fp h g 1 k s 7 U - - f gb # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies this might be marked AVR(3), LED(4) 15 15 17 - fp h g 1 k s 11 U - - f gb LED # seen marked as "leader" in shugart's pg 179 16 4 18 - fp h g 1 k s 7 U - - f gb LAF RYR # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: LAF(1), RYR(1) 17 4 18 - fp h g 1 k s 11 U - - f gb 18 5 18 - fp h g 1 k s 11 U - - f gb # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: ADV(4), FAR(2), OGD(4) 19 5 18 - fp h g 2-4 l s 11 U - - f gb # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: ADV(4), OGD(4) 20 3 18 - fp h g 2-4 l s 15 A - - f gb TAY - # "transitional" Either Keywind or pendant wind. # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: TAY(5) # SN157224 seen as "HHTaylor Adjusted", 15j and transitional on ebay 229288409 # SN158128 seen as "HHTaylor Adjusted", 15j and transitional in my collection 21 48 10 - 3/4 h g ? k q 7 U - - f gb # cases are hard to find # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: DEX(3) # elgin doc list this as a "model 1", but I have used the "style number" instead 22 48 10 - 3/4 h g 4 k q 11 U - - f gb GB - # cases are hard to find # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: GB(1) # elgin doc list this as a "model 1", but I have used the "style number" instead 23 46 10 - 3/4 h g 2 k q 15 A - - f gb FR - # cases are hard to find # There is a lot of confusion on this grade # 1915 MC says: # the grade list says that grade 23 is class 47, but the # class list says that class 47 doesn't have a grade 23. # The "name" section of the grades says that FR is in class 46 # there are no grades listed in class 46, just the name FR # 1896 MC says: # class 47 contains grade 23, not 28 # the "classification of mvts" says that FR is in class 46, # but it also says that G=23 is class 47 # there are no grades listed in class 46, just the name FR # There are only three runs of G=23. In the SN list, the # first and last run are marked "FR C=46", the middle is # marked "G=23 C=47". These ranges were later all called # G=23 # The last G=23 was made in 1875, so even the 1896 MC is "long after # the fact" # # I'm going to say that this was really supposed to be C=46 # # To add to the funkiness, the 1915 MC says that the LDY C=47 was 15j # but class 47 only has grades "23 (list as 28) and 29", and G=29 # is only 11j. See G=29 desc for more info # # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: FR(1) # elgin doc list this as a "model 1", but I have used the "style # number" instead # # SN50456 seen marked "Adjusted" in Tom McIntyre's collection 24 45 12 - 3/4 h g 1 k q 7 U - - f gb 25 45 12 - 3/4 h g 1 k q 11 U - - f gb 26 44 12 - 3/4 h g 1 k q 15 ? - - f gb 27 1 18 - fp h n 2-4 l q 15-17 A - - e gb BWR - STD # are there really unmarked mvts? # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: FT(3), BWR(5) # SN2127177 seen as "adj" (maybe 15j?) on ebay 185419526 # SN5736394 seen marked as "BWR Adj 17j" on ebay 193013166 # "High_grade_info" says I saw one of these marked as "Standard" on ebay # SN5633227 seen as "BWR Adj 15j" on ebay 204164251 # SN2702233 seen as "BWR Adj 15j" on ebay 205880988 28 48 10 - 3/4 h g 4 k q 7 U - - f gb DEX - # cases are hard to find # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: DEX(3) # elgin doc list this as a "model 1", but I have used the "style number" instead 29 47 10 - 3/4 h g 3 k q 11 U - - f gb LDY - # cases are hard to find # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: LDY(1) # I'm not 100% sure about this... it is supposed to be 15j. However # the ranges which were marked in the 1896 MC as LDY are marked as # G=29 in the 1950. # # elgin doc list this as a "model 1", but I have used the "style number" instead # SN164159 seen marked as "LDY" on ebay 203267649 30 45 12 - 3/4 h g 1 k q 7 U - - f gb 31 45 12 - 3/4 h g 1 k q 7 U - - f gb 32 44 12 - 3/4 h g 1 k q 11 U - - f gb 33 3 18 - fp h n 2-4 l q 15 A - - e gb TAY # SN2701821 seen as "HHTaylor Adj" on ebay 194049323 34 43 14 - 3/4 h g 1 k q 7 U - - f gb # "OF" or "HC" style? # APWB-E lists two styles, one "Open Face" and one "Hunting". # The 1915 MC lists only one style of 14s M=1 movement, which is # the "HC style" that is in APWB-E. (Townsend's "Everything" book # also shows these two models, and actually the OF drawing in APWB=E # appears to be from Townsend's.) # # The "OF style" is a mirror image of the "HC style" except that the # top plate is rounded across from the balance cock instead of cut # flat. # # So far, I have only seen pictures of the "OF style", and I'm not # convinced that the "HC style" exists. 35 43 14 - 3/4 h g 1 k q 7 U - - f gb # "OF" or "HC" style? # see notes on grade 34 36 43 14 - 3/4 h g 1 k q 11 U - - f gb # "OF" or "HC" style? # see notes on grade 34 37 42 14 - 3/4 h g 1 k q 15 U - - f gb # "OF" style # see notes on grade 34 # SN389510 seen as "open face" style and *not* marked "Adjusted" on ebay 233324296 (later, could I have missed the "Adjusted"?) # In Townsend's "Everything" book, There is a drawing with SN389001 on a "open face" style and marked "Adjusted" on the bottom plate by the balance 38 3 18 - fp h g 1 k s 15 ? - - f gb # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: TAY(5) 39 43 14 - 3/4 h g 1 k q 13 ? - - f gb # "OF" or "HC" style? # see notes on grade 34 # In Townsend's "Everything" book, There is a drawing with SN351001 on a "hunter case" style and not marked "Adjusted" 40 43 14 - 3/4 h g 1 k q 7 U - - f gb # "OF" or "HC" style? # see notes on grade 34 41 42 14 - 3/4 h g 1 k q 13 ? - - f gb # "OF" style # see notes on grade 34 # SN2136023 seen as "open face" style and I don't think marked "Adjusted" on ebay 314874171 42 42 14 - 3/4 h g 1 k q 15 ? - - f gb # "OF" or "HC" style? # see notes on grade 34 43 10 18 - fp o n 5 p q 11 U - - f gb # half nickel 44 9 18 - fp o n 5 p q 15-17 U-A - - e gb GMW - # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: OVR(3), GMW(6) # SN5741493 is clearly marked "GMW 17j Adj" on ebay 191976229. This contradicts the 1915 doc that says only 15 jewels, and APWB-E which says 15j U # SN5740480 seen as "GMW 15j" *not* marked "adjusted" on ebay 206847928 45 51 6 - 3/4 h n 1 l q 13 U - - f gb # single plate or train&barrel bridges? # SN2349775 seen *not* marked as "adjusted" on ebay 205473442 # SN4363537 seen as "nameless 13j", having a single top plate and *not* marked as "adjusted" on ebay 301202257 # SN3965810 seen as "13j", having a single top plate but too blury to determine name/adj on ebay 331462916 46 42 14 - 3/4 h n 1 k q 15 U - - f gb # "OF" style # see notes on grade 34 # SN474414 seen as "open face" style and *not* marked as "adjusted" in shugart's pg 184 47 19 16 - 3/4 c g 1 l q 7 U - - f gb 48 18 16 - 3/4 c g 1 l q 13 U - - e gb # SN601674 seen *not* marked as "adjusted" and also it has a free regulator, not an elgin regulator! ebay 200087555 49 17 16 - 3/4 c g 1 l q 15 A - - e gb # SN606705 seen marked as "adjusted" (on bottom plate by balance) on ebay 226043751 50 17 16 - 3/4 c n 1 l q 15 A - - e gb # SN4998591 seen marked as "adjusted" (on bottom plate by balance) on ebay 202398728 51 15 17 - fp h g 1 k s 7 U - - f gb # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: AVR(3), LED(4) 52 15 17 - fp h g 1 k s 11 U - - f gb 53 48 10 - 3/4 h g 1 k q 7 U - - f gb # cases are hard to find # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: DEX(3) # elgin doc list this as a "model 1", but I have used the "style number" instead # # There is a cut in APWB-E that shows this as a "style number" # of "5", but I think this is actually a "style 1". The # difference between the "style 1" and "style 5" is that the # top plate is rounded across from the balance cock instead of # cut flat. 54 48 10 - 3/4 h g ? k q 13 ? - - f gb # cases are hard to find # elgin doc list this as a "model 1", but I have used the "style number" instead 55 5 18 - fp h g 1 k s 7 U - - f gb RYR LAF FRY - # the cuts in the 1871 almanac seem to imply that: # RYR has no jewels visible and a solid balance # LAF has no jewels visible and a compensated balance # FER has 4 jewels visible and a solid balance # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: AGE(6), CHF(6), FGO(3) # SN254306 seen as "HMAvery" cut out balance cock The movement is marked "Manf: Elgin Ill.s", "Spuilo-Hurion Michigan" (I think, it is in script and hard to read) 56 4 18 - fp h g 1 k s 11 U - - f gb 57 4 18 - fp h g 1 k s 11-13 U - - f gb GMW ADV - # 11j contradicts the 1915 MC that says 13j. Just about everyone else disagrees # APWB-E says some of these are marked "Advance" ca1869-1874 # APWB-E says unadj # APWB-E says 11j # SN49293 seen in 1871 almanac as a cut (drawing) marked GMW, but *not* marked "Adjusted" (and 1873) desciption says "jewelled upper plate" -> 11j # SN169168 seen as GMW 11j and *not* marked "adjusted" in my collection # SN74850 seen as "GMW 11j" (too blury to tell if marked "adjusted") on ebay 278046374 # SN17705 seen as "GMW 11j" and *not* marked "adjusted" on ebay 299456131 # SN48572 seen as "GMW 11j" and *not* marked "adjusted" on ebay 310648571 58 3 18 - fp h g 1 k s 15 U-A - - f gb TAY - # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: TAY(5) # 1873 almanac shows mvt marked "adjusted" and unmarked # APWB-E says some of these are marked "H.A. Bedel" "Jackson, Ohio" Adjusted Ca 1874 # SN36970 seen as "HHTaylor" and *not* marked "adjusted" on ebay 206544491 59 15 17 - fp h g 1 k s 7 U - - f gb AVR - INT # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: AVR(3), LED(4) # APWB-E says that some of these are marked "INT" (Inter-Ocean) 60 5 18 - fp h g 1 k s 7 U - - f gb - CHF # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: AGE(6), CHF(6), FGO(3) # APWB-E says that some of these are marked "CHF" 61 2 18 - fp h g 2 l q 15 A - - f gb HZC - # "transitional" Either Keywind or pendant wind. # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: HZC(2) # SN235363 seen as "HZC 15 Adjusted" in Lex's collection 62 2 18 - fp h g 1 k q 15 U-A - - f gb HZC - # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: HZC(2) # 1873 almanac shows mvt marked "adjusted" and unmarked # SN43943 seen marked "HZC", but *not* marked "Adjusted" (according to email) on ebay 205310868 # SN170926 seen marked "HZC", but *not* marked "Adjusted" on ebay 211904939 63 4 18 - fp h g 2-4 l s 11-13 U - - f gb GMW - # "transitional" Either Keywind or pendant wind. are any really 13j? # SN321054 seen as transitional, said to be "at least 11j", no mention of "Adjusted" on ebay 245415961 # SN346867 seen as transitional on ebay 268614211 # SN320781 seen as transitional and at least 11j, can't see any "Adjusted" markings on ebay 280610339 # SN321678 verified to be "11j" in Greg Fraunenhoff's collection # SN376200 seen as transitional and at least 11j, and *not* marked "Adjusted" on ebay 301410021 # SN320781 seen as transitional and at least 11j, and *not* marked "Adjusted" on ebay 280610339 64 51 6 - 3/4 h g 1 l q 7 U - - f gb # single plate or train&barrel bridges? 65 51 6 - 3/4 h g 1 l q 13 U - - f gb # SN1798230 seen *not* marked as "adjusted" on ebay 221850778 # SN1798311 seen as having a single top plate on ebay 294549603 # SN2440321 seen as having a single top plate on ebay 306432844 66 50 6 - 3/4 h g 1 l q 15 U - - f gb # single plate or train&barrel bridges? # SN1373251 seen as having a single top plate on ebay 273233695 # SN1750989 seen as having a single top plate on ebay 330586369 # SN1468072 seen as having a single top plate on ebay 330180110 67 50 6 - 3/4 h n 1 l q 15 U - - f gb # SN1793398 seen *not* marked as "adjusted" on ebay 202475363 # SN3545737 seen as having a single top plate on ebay 233626269 # SN2414973 seen as having a single top plate on ebay 302020949 68 5 18 - fp h g 2-4 l s 7 U - - f gb LAF - # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: AGE(6), CHF(6) 69 1 18 - fp h g 1 k q 15 U-A - - ? gb BWR - # some are free regulators, some are elgin style # are there really unmarked mvts? # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: BWR(5) # 1873 almanac shows mvt marked "adjusted" and *not* marked "adjusted" # shugart's says that there are nameless 69's 70 1 18 - fp h g 2-4 l q 15-17 A - - e gb BWR NWC - # are there really unmarked mvts? # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: BWR(5) # SN3747841 seen as "BWR 15j Adj" on ebay 194646481 # SN1389629 seen as "BWR 15j Adj" on ebay 197859575 # SN571018 seen as "BWR Adj 15j" on ebay 199739608 # SN5637521 seen as "BWR 17j Adj" on ebay 200915779 # SN887523 seen as "BWR Adjusted 15j" on ebay 205142675 # SN1629707 seen as "BWR Adj 15j" on ebay 210091031 # SN1787160 seen as "BWR Adj 15j" on ebay 210646540 # SN4318873 seen as "BWR adjusted 15j" on ebay 211238467 71 49 6 - 3/4 h n 1 l q 17 A - - f gb # single plate or train&barrel bridges? # SN3006109 seen as having a single top plate and marked "Adjusted" (on balance cock) on ebay 276241091 # SN1458477 seen as having a single top plate (pic too blury to see anything else) on ebay 316923163 72 16 16 - 3/4 c n 1 l q 21 A - - e gb # SN607113 seen marked "Adjusted" (on bottom plate near balance) on ebay 182844877 73 11 18 - fp o g 5 p q 7 U - - f gb 74 10 18 - fp o g 5 p q 11 U - - f gb 75 9 18 - fp o g 5 p q 15-17 U-A - - e gb GMW - # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: GMW(6) # SN3051750 seen *not* marked as "adjusted" on ebay 197250924 # SN5934589 seen marked "GMW Adjusted 17 jewels" on ebay 202889749 you can see the screw for the center jewel setting # SN3804207 seen *not* marked as "adjusted" and marked GMW, looks like 15j too. ebay 200996185 # SN2365148 seen *not* marked as "adjusted" and marked GMW, looks like 15j too. ebay 207653872 # SN5755028 seen *not* marked as "adjusted" nor "GMW", looks like 15j too. ebay 207956152 # SN3515254 seen *not* marked "adjusted" nor "GMW", looks like 15j too. ebay 231012789 76 8 18 - fp o g 5 p q 15 A - - e gb TAY - # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: TAY(1) # SN5814587 seen marked "adjusted" on ebay 194269814 # SN2298397 seen marked "adjusted", not marked TAY on ebay 202626137 77 7 18 - fp o g 5 p q 15-17 A - - e gb BWR # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: BWR(4) # 1896 MC says there are unmarked mvt, but I don't think so # Shugart's says that the first FT was SN2300001 which is a G=77 # SN2300760 said to be 15j seen as BWR Adjusted on ebay 196327022 78 5 18 - fp h n 1 k b 11 U - - f gb 79 3 18 - fp h g 1 k q 15 A - - e gb TAY # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: TAY(5) # SN1151774 said to be "HHTaylor 15j Adjusted" on ebay 220362320 # SN867??? seen as "TAY 15j" and I think "adjusted" (blury pic, but there is scribbling in the right spot) on ebay 221533665 # SN1151375 seen as "TAY adjusted", but I can't see how many jewels on ebay 279083074 #pg 2 80 3 18 - fp h g 2-4 l q 15 A - - e gb - TAY # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: TAY(5) # SN2621942 seen marked as Adjusted but *not* marked HHTaylor on ebay 195454135 81 4 18 - fp h g 1 k q 13-15 U - - ? gb - GMW FRY # not sure which naming is more common # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: FRY(1), GMW(4) # SN977920 seen as 13j, but can't tell if it is adjusted ebay 205253578 # SN1209595 seen as "GMW 13j" and *not* marked 'adjusted" on ebay 216670489 # SN1394381 seen as "GMW 13j" and *not* marked "Adjusted" and is *not* REG_ELGIN on ebay 243644214 # SN854544 seen as "GMW 13j REG_FREE" on ebay 304973493 82 4 18 - fp h g 2-4 l q 13-15 U - - e gb GMW - # not sure which naming is more common # REG_FREE also # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: GMW(4) # APWB-E says some of these are marked "R.W. Sears" (very rare) # APWB-E says some of these are marked "W.G. Beasley" "Rich Hill, Mo." # # SN2573127 seen *not* marked as "adjusted" on ebay 191324385 # SN2574432 seen marked as GMW, 15j and *not* marked "adjusted" on ebay 191315347 (aka 202208624) # SN4282815 said to be marked "GMW" on ebay 208339327 # SN870779 seen as "GMW 13j" and *not* marked "adjusted" on ebay 208480179 # SN4328078 seen as "GMW 15j" and *not* marked "adjusted" on ebay 208830737 # SN3391645 seen as "GMW 15j" and *not* marked "adjusted" on ebay 210272512 # SN994736 seen as "GMW 13j" and *not* marked "adjusted" on ebay 210455347 83 27 16 - 3/4 s g 4 l q 15 A - - f gb # after Grades 83, 84, 89, sweep sec weren't made for 37 years # SN943371 appears to be marked "Adjusted", but the pic is very blury on on ebay 272230581 84 27 16 - 3/4 s n 4 l q 15 A - - f gb # after Grades 83, 84, 89, sweep sec weren't made for 37 years # SN926111 seen marked "Adjusted" in my collection 85 22 16 - 3/4 cb g 2 l q 15 A - - e gb 86 22 16 - 3/4 cb n 2 l q 15 A - - e gb 87 5 18 - fp h n 1 k q 11 U - - f gb # half nickel 88 5 18 - fp h n 2-4 l q 11 U - - f gb # half nickel 89 28 16 - 3/4 s g 4 l q 13 U - - f gb # after Grades 83, 84, 89, sweep sec weren't made for 37 years # SN940374 looks to not be marked "adjusted" on ebay 268095389 90 23 16 - 3/4 cb g 2 l q 13 U - - f gb # SN941290 see *not* marked as "adjusted" in my collection 91 21 16 - 3/4 cb n 2 l q 21 A - - e gb # SN942035 seen marked "Adjusted" (on bottom plate near balance) in NAWCC v39/3 num 308 92 26 16 - 3/4 h g 3 l q 11 U - - f gb # SN2406490 seen as having a train and a barrel bridge on ebay 233459278 # SN11341497 seen as having a train and a barrel bridge on ebay 236042712 # SN3472324 seen as having a train and a barrel bridge on ebay 271810377 93 20 16 - 3/4 c g 1 l q 11 U - - f gb 94 52 6 - 3/4 h g 1 l q 11 U - - f gb # SN2822901 seen as having a single top plate on ebay 229019012 # SN2170214 seen as having a single top plate on ebay 299904116 95 52 6 - 3/4 h g 1 l q 7 U - - f gb # APWB-E says some of these are marked "Atlas" # SN4379878 seen as having a single top plate on ebay 209872009 # SN2716133 seen as having a single top plate on ebay 218756983 # SN2189300 seen as having a single top plate on ebay 220465579 # SN2585334 seen as having a single top plate on ebay 224154402 96 6 18 - fp h g 2-4 l q 7 U - - f gb 97 6 18 - fp h g 1 k q 7 U - - f gb 98 14 18 - 3/4 c g 6 p q 7 U - - f gb 99 13 18 - 3/4 c g 6 p q 11 U - - f gb 100 12 18 - 3/4 c g 6 p q 15 U - - e gb # SN1862397 seen as *not* marked "adjusted" on ebay 302141517 101 52 6 - 3/4 h n 1 l q 11 U - - f gb # SN3733082 seen as a single bridge on ebay 227618440 # SN2506611 seen as a single bridge on ebay 212274573 102 5 18 - fp h n 2-4 l q 11 U - - f gb # half nickel 103 4 18 - fp h n 2-4 l q 15 U - - e gb GMW - # SN5437520 seen *not* marked as "adjusted" and not marked GMW # SN5707876 seen *not* marked as "adjusted" but marked GMW on ebay 191857645 # SN4668103 seen as marked GMW, could not see if it was marked Adjusted, but everything else was listed in the desc ebay 205262208 104 31 16 - 3/4 o g 5 p q 7 U - - f gb # SN2763661 seen as having a single top plate on ebay 228775299 # SN5332177 seen as having a single top plate on ebay 244699992 # SN4353497 seen as having a single top plate on ebay 307566521 105 31 16 - 3/4 o g 5 p q 11 U - - f gb # SN3292232 seen as having a train and a barrel bridge 106 30 16 - 3/4 o g 5 p q 13-15 A - - o gb # SN5387726 seen as having a train and a barrel bridge, 15j and *not* marked "Adjusted" on ebay 231266738 # SN2886712 seen as having a train and a barrel bridge, 13j and *not* marked "Adjusted" on ebay 230413357 # SN4627775 seen as having a train and a barrel bridge, 15j and I don't think it is marked "Adjusted" on ebay 309065971 107 29 16 - 3/4 o g 5 p q 15 A - - o gb # single plate or train&barrel bridges? # SN5302064 seen as having a train and a barrel bridge, and "nameless 15j Adjusted REG_OLD_RR_PAT" on ebay 278844434 # SN4628829 seen as having a train and a barrel bridge, and "nameless 15j Adjusted REG_OLD_RR_PAT" on ebay 317576933 108 29 16 - 3/4 o n 5 p q 15 A - - o gb # SN2888707 seen as having a train and a barrel bridge on ebay 229638918 # SN4629287 seen as having REG_OLD_RR_PAT and marked "Adjusted" on ebay 275320766 # SN2961493 seen as having a train and a barrel bridge, REG_OLD_RR_PAT and marked "Adjusted" on ebay 330270376 109 60 0 - 3/4 h g 1 p q 7 U - - f gb # seen *without* a screw on the balance bridge 110 60 0 - 3/4 h n 1 p q 11 U - - f gb 111 58 0 - 3/4 h n 1 p q 15 ? - - f gb # seen *without* a screw on the balance bridge # SN3072847 appears to not be marked Adjusted on ebay 220253447 112 57 0 - 3/4 h n 1 p q 17 ? - - f gb 113 60 0 - 3/4 h g 1 p q 11 U - - f gb # seen *without* a screw on the balance bridge 114 26 16 - 3/4 h g 3 l q 7 U - - f gb # Elgin's 1915 MC "grade of mvt" list says this is pend set, but model 3 is lever set. # SN5777619 is lever set according to the seller on ebay 20811178 # SN6759732 seen as having a train and a barrel bridge on ebay 244983694 # SN5983462 seen as having a train and a barrel bridge on ebay 253801446 # SN3294657 seen as having a train and a barrel bridge on ebay 277537923 115 59 0 - 3/4 h n 1 p q 13 U - - f gb # SN4050025 seen as 13j and *not* marked Adjusted on ebay 237283748 116 7 18 - fp o n 5 p q 15-17 A - - e gb BWR # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: FT(3), BWR(4) # 1896 MC says there are unmarked mvt, but I don't think so # SN5719003 seen marked "BWR Adjusted" and is 17j in my collection # SN4539830 is 15j SN6676269, SN6676861 are 17j # SN6676269 seen marked "17j adjusted" on ebay 185832294 # SN6676861 seen marked "adjusted" on ebay 193697859 # SN4051522 said to be "15j adjusted" on ebay 215436244 117 56 6 - 3/4 h g 2 p q 7 U - - f gb # APWB-E says some of these are marked "Atlas" # seen *without* a screw on the balance bridge 118 56 6 - 3/4 h g 2 p q 11 U - - f gb # seen *without* a screw on the balance bridge 119 56 6 - 3/4 h n 2 p q 11 U - - f gb # seen *without* a screw on the balance bridge 120 55 6 - 3/4 h n 2 p q 13 U - - f gb # SN4681720 seen as 13j and *not* marked "Adjusted" on ebay 248937251 121 54 6 - 3/4 h n 2 p q 15 U - - f gb # SN4500897 seen as *not* marked "Adjusted" on ebay 243594010 (pic blury, there is a chance I missed it, but...) 122 53 6 - 3/4 h n 2 p q 17 ? - - f gb 123 9 18 - fp o g 5 p q 15-17 A - - e gb # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: GMW(6) # 1915 MC says this is 15j # SN4782365 clearly seen marked "nameless 17j Adjusted" on ebay 270380302 this contradicts the 1915 MC that says only 15j 124 9 18 - fp o n 5 p q 15-17 A - - e gb # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: GMW(6) # SN4686343 seen marked as "Adjusted" on ebay 213999066 # SN4988390 said to be "nameless 17j", but only train pl left in Greg Frauenhoff's collection "5j showing -> 17j" 125 4 18 - fp h g 2-4 l q 15 A - - e gb # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: GMW(4) # SN4736178 seen marked as "Adjusted" on ebay 203747745 126 4 18 - fp h n 2-4 l q 15 A - - e gb # SN4739399 seen as "15j" and marked "Adjusted" on ebay 230395568 127 26 16 - 3/4 h n 3 l q 11 U - - f gb # single plate or train&barrel bridges? # SN5513501 seen as having a train and a barrel bridge on ebay 246388494 128 31 16 - 3/4 o n 5 p q 11 U - - f gb # single plate or train&barrel bridges? # SN5297626 seen as having a train and a barrel bridge on ebay 275679877 # SN5297867 seen as having a train and a barrel bridge on ebay 327288499 129 60 0 - 3/4 h g 1 p q 15 U - - f gb # seen *without* a screw on the balance bridge # SN7670668 seen *not* marked as "adjusted" on ebay 201950750 130 60 0 - 3/4 h n 1 p q 15 U - - f gb # seen *without* a screw on the balance bridge # SN7716001 seen *not* marked as "adjusted" on ebay 224006264 131 58 0 - 3/4 h n 1 p q 15 ? - - f gb 132 56 6 - 3/4 h g 2 p q 15 U - - f gb # SN7675722 seen *not* marked as "adjusted" on ebay 194923444 133 56 6 - 3/4 h n 2 p q 15 U - - f gb # SN7719755 seen *not* marked as "adjusted" on ebay 288523865 134 54 6 - 3/4 h n 2 p q 15 ? - - f gb 135 26 16 - 3/4 h g 3 l q 15 ? - - f gb # single plate or train&barrel bridges? 136 26 16 - 3/4 h n 3 l q 15 U - - f gb # single plate or train&barrel bridges? # SN5734078 seen as having a train and a barrel bridge, "nameless 15j", and *not* marked "Adjusted" on ebay 272924008 137 25 16 - 3/4 h g 3 l q 13-15 ? - - o gb # single plate or train&barrel bridges? 138 31 16 - 3/4 o g 5 p q 15 U - - f gb # single plate or train&barrel bridges? # SN5891421 seen as having a train and a barrel bridge, "nameless 15j", and *not* marked "Adjusted" on ebay 318927105 139 31 16 - 3/4 o n 5 p q 15 ? - - f gb # single plate or train&barrel bridges? 140 30 16 - 3/4 o g 5 p q 13-15 ? - - o gb # single plate or train&barrel bridges? 141 5 18 - fp h g 2-4 l q 15 U - - f gb # SN6984807 seen *not* marked as "adjusted" on ebay 192517563 142 5 18 - fp h n 2-4 l q 15 U - - e gb # half nickel # SN6078165 seen *not* marked as "adjusted" on ebay 188995644 143 4 18 - fp h g 2-4 l q 15-17 U-A - - e gb GMW - # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: GMW(4) 144 4 18 - fp h n 2-4 l q 15-17 A - - e gb GMW - # not sure which naming is more common # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: OVR(2) # APWB-E says some of these are marked "The Atlantic" "N. Gamse NY" Adj 17j ca 1895 # SN6810300 seen as "17j adj" on ebay 193188860 # SN7617961 seen as "17j adj" *not* marked GMW on ebay 196952672 145 10 18 - fp o g 5 p q 15 U - - f gb # SN6197459 seen marked "15j", but *not* marked "adjusted" on ebay 232794880 146 10 18 - fp o n 5 p q 15 ? - - e gb # half nickel 147 9 18 - fp o g 5 p q 15-17 A - - e gb GMW # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: GMW(6) # SN6100115 seen as "GMW 17j Adjusted" on ebay 283892704 # SN6200086 seen as "GMW 17j Adjusted" on ebay 300948886 148 9 18 - fp o n 5 p q 15-17 A - - e gb GMW - # not sure which naming is more common # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: OVR(3) GMW(6) # SN10248443.seen marked "GMW Adjusted" on ebay 195349929 # SN6144498 said to be "GMW 17j" on ebay 199585422 149 1 18 - fp h n 2-4 l q 20-21 A - - e gb - 149 FT # double roller starts at 10422401 # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: FT(2) # 1904 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: FT(1) # (note: 1904 MC does not yet have a G=348 and still has the # G=183 runs that were converted to G=348 later on) # SN6433919 seen marked as "21j Adjusted" on ebay 197980380 # SN6677865 seen marked as "21j Adjusted" on ebay 211753140 # SN6361959 seen marked as "21j Adjusted" on ebay 218970317 150 7 18 - fp o n 5 p q 20-21 A-A5P - - e gb - FT 150 # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: FT(1) # APWB-E does not mention G=150 as being a FT # APWB-E says some of these are marked "H.E. Adams" # SN6434477 said to be marked "21j Adjusted", but *not* Father Time on ebay 179781375 (from old data, pic had expired, but my notes don't mention FT either...) # SN6457263 seen as "21j Adjusted nameless" on ebay 247950887 # SN6434035 seen as "21j 150 A5P" on ebay 268188193 151 35 16 - 3/4 h g 6 p q 7 U - - f gb 152 35 16 - 3/4 h n 6 p q 15 U - - e gb # SN6597290 seen *not* marked as "adjusted" on ebay 192319185 153 34 16 - 3/4 h n 6 p q 17 A - - e gb # SN8043142 seen marked "17j Adjusted" on ebay 217514950 154 33 16 - 3/4 h n 6 p q 17 A - - e gb # SN6697901 seen marked "17j Adjusted" on ebay 237484668 155 32 16 - 3/4 h n 6 p q 17 A - - e gb # SN6601812 seen marked "17j Adjusted" on ebay 332018003 156 36 16 - 3/4 hb n 6 p q 21 A - - e gb - LE # very few are marked Lord Elgin Shugart says first 16s double roller starts at 10249901, but what about G=162 8497301? # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: LE(1) # SN6463287 seen marked "adjusted" and nameless in my collection 157 40 16 - 3/4 o g 7 p q 7 U - - f gb 158 40 16 - 3/4 o n 7 p q 15 ? - - e gb # SN7029537 appears to be not marked "adjusted", (no mention in text, can't see it in the blury pic) on ebay 278137965 159 39 16 - 3/4 o n 7 p q 17 A - - e gb # SN7778648 said to be marked "adjusted" on ebay 187158368 160 38 16 - 3/4 o n 7 p q 17 A - - e gb # SN6607884 seen marked "17j Adjusted" on ebay 255980102 161 37 16 - 3/4 o n 7 p q 17 A - - e gb # SN6468613 seen marked "17j Adjusted" on ebay 234044459 162 41 16 - 3/4 ob n 7 p q 21 A - - e gb - LE # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: LE(1) # seen advertised as LE in "Bogle Brothers" JC in EWC pg 86 # shugart says that there is a "FT j=21 PS OF", and this is the only grade that matches (well, except the name) # SN6469421 seen as "21j Adjusted" and nameless on ebay 240425835 163 3 18 - fp h n 2-4 l q 17 A - - e gb - OVR # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: OVR(1) # SN6478258 is probably not marked "OVR", but I can't find an ebay number 164 1 18 - fp h n 2-4 l q 17-21 A - - e gb - FT # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: FT(3), BWR(5) 165 8 18 - fp o n 5 p q 17 ? - - e gb - OVR # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: OVR(1) # SN6498155 is probably not marked "OVR", but I can't find an ebay number 166 7 18 - fp o n 5 p q 17 A - - e gb # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: FT(3), BWR(4) # SN6565050 seen as "nameless 17j Adjusted" in my collection # SN6480713 seen as "nameless 17j Adjusted" on ebay 272898959 167 58 0 - 3/4 h n 1 p q 16 ? - - e gb 168 54 6 - 3/4 h n 2 p q 16 A - - e gb # half nickel # SN6798069 seen marked "16j Adjusted" on ebay 230547999 #pg 3 169 5 18 - fp h n 2-4 l q 15 U - - e gb # half nickel # SN6191984 seen *not* marked as "adjusted" on ebay 199753271 170 10 18 - fp o n 5 p q 15 U - - e gb # half nickel # SN7258963 seen *not* marked as "adjusted" on ebay 187561253 171 6 18 - fp h n 2-4 l q 7 U - - f gb # half nickel 172 11 18 - fp o n 5 p q 7 U - - f gb # half nickel 173 60 0 - 3/4 h n 1 p q 7 U - - f gb # half nickel # seen *without* a screw on the balance bridge 174 57 0 - 3/4 h n 1 p q 17 ? - - e gb 175 56 6 - 3/4 h n 2 p q 7 U - - f gb # half nickel # seen *without* a screw on the balance bridge 176 53 6 - 3/4 h n 2 p q 17 ? - - e gb # last grade mentioned in the 1896 MC 177 ? 6 - 3/4 h n 2 p q 7 U - - f gb SUN ATL # class and finish marked as ".." in 1915 MC grade of mvt list # SN7388125 seen marked as "Sun Dial" nickel damaskeening on ebay 187278114 # SN7804490 seen as "Atlas" on dial & mvt, nickel damaskeening on ebay 297350197 # SN7395764 seen as "Sun Dial" on dial & mvt, nickel damaskeening on ebay 299981849 # SN7108476 dial and mvt said to be marked "Atlas Watch Co." on ebay 304082976 178 ? 18 - fp h n 2-4 l q 7 U - - f gb SUN ATL - # class and finish marked as ".." in 1915 MC grade of mvt list # APWB-E says some of these are marked "Sun Dial" # Note: the inclusion of "-" (Nameless) is just to force unknown runs to not be marked as Atlas. Although, SN7123453 may have been Nameless, I'm not 100% sure. # SN7123453 seen marked as "Elgin", but *not* "Elgin National Watch Co.", and nickel damaskeening on ebay 234306946 # SN7085419 seen marked "Atlas Watch Co" on mvt and dial on ebay 256727889 179 ? 18 - fp o n 5 p q 7 U - - f gb ATL ACM SOL SUN # class and finish marked as ".." in 1915 MC grade of mvt list # APWB-E says some are marked "America" "Philadelphia, USA" on mvt and dial # ebay 197172527 says "SN7156962 marked Atlas Watch Co (dial and maybe mvt)" nickel damaskeening seller: gfrauen@aol.com # SN7538030 seen as "Acme Watch Co" on ebay 201073667 # SN7451734 said to be marked "Solar Watch Company, Chicago" on www.pmtime.com/pockets/elgin/pm423.htm # SN7359883 seen as "Sun Dial" on mvt and dial on ebay 310577036 180 65 18 - fp o n 7 l q 17 A - - e gb BWR # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: BWR(3) # SN8325079 seen as marked "BWR 17j Adjusted" on ebay 193793366 181 65 18 - fp o n 7 l q 21 A - - e gb # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: FT(4) # SN8326121 seen marked "21j Adjusted" and nameless on ebay 251352081 182 31 16 - 3/4 o g 5 p q 7 U - - f gb # single plate or train&barrel bridges? # SN8888511 seen as having a single top plate on ebay 300299445 183 1 18 - fp h n 2-4 l q 17 A - - e gb BWR # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: FT(3), BWR(5) # SN7298741 seen as BWR Adjusted on ebay 184597173 184 7 18 - fp o n 5 p q 17 A - - e gb BWR # many runs converted to G=273 # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: FT(3), BWR(4) # SN7859034 seen as "BWR 17j Adjusted" on ebay 195403028 185 35 16 - 3/4 h g 6 p q 15 U - - e gb # SN8274??? seen as *not* marked "Adjusted" on ebay 238772300 186 40 16 - 3/4 o g 7 p q 15 ? - - e gb # SN8275414 seen *not* marked as "adjusted" on ebay 203959586 187 70 12 - 3/4 h n 2 p q 15 ? - - e mb 188 69 12 - 3/4 h n 2 p q 17 ? - - e mb 189 68 12 - 3/4 h n 2 p q 19 A5P - - e jb BWR # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: BWR(1) # 03/01/00 where did the "A5P" info come from? 190 67 12 - 3/4 h n 2 p q 23 A - - e jb - LE # is this really a LE? # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: LE(1) # APWID-PG pg 20 shows a Hampden "Special Railway" as the "first American 21j movement in 1898. However, the Elgin G=190 is supposed to be ca 1897. # SN741209? seen as "23j Adjusted", but *not* marked LE in my collection 191 74 12 - 3/4 o n 3 p q 15 U - - e mb # center wheel has a brass cup w/o a jewel! # SN8188811 seen *not* marked as "adjusted" on ebay 219261115 192 73 12 - 3/4 o n 3 p q 17 A - - e mb # SN7603363 seen as "17j Adjusted REG_ELGIN mb" on ebay 312503672 193 72 12 - 3/4 o n 3 p q 19 A - - e jb - BWR # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: BWR(1) # seen advertised as BWR in "Bogle Brothers" JC in EWC pg 90 194 71 12 - 3/4 o n 3 p q 23 A - - e jb - LE # is this really a LE? # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: LE(1) # SN7499413 Shugart's pg 186 shows a mvt with this marked LE, but I think it was doctored by Elgin... # seen advertised as LE in "Bogle Brothers" JC in EWC pg 90, but I think the pic was doctored by Elgin (same as in shugart's) # SN7425606 seen as "23j Adjusted", but *not* marked LE in my collection # SN12147016 seen advertised as LE in "1913 Baird-North" JC pg F-30, and I don't think the pic was doctored 195 31 16 - 3/4 o g 5 p q 15 ? - - f gb # single plate or train&barrel bridges? 196 70 12 - 3/4 h n 2 p q 7 U - - f mb # half nickel 197 74 12 - 3/4 o n 3 p q 7 U - - f mb 198 79 0 - 3/4 h n 2 p q 7 U - - f mb 199 78 0 - 3/4 h n 2 p q 15 U - - f mb # SN8146747 seen as "15j REG_FREE mb" and *not* marked "Adjusted" on ebay 246462851 200 77 0 - 3/4 h n 2 p q 17 ? - - e mb 201 76 0 - 3/4 h n 2 p q 19 A - - e jb FR # seen implied advertising as Adjusted in "Bogle Brothers" JC in EWC pg 92 # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: FR(1) 202 83 0 - 3/4 o n 3 p q 7 U - - f mb # half nickel 203 82 0 - 3/4 o n 3 p q 15 ? - - f mb 204 81 0 - 3/4 o n 3 p q 17 ? - - e mb 205 80 0 - 3/4 o n 3 p q 19 A - - e jb FR # adj is a guess based on having seen a G=201 # seen implied advertising as Adjusted in "Bogle Brothers" JC in EWC pg 92 # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: FR(1) 206 75 6 - 3/4 h n 2 p q 7 U - - f gb # half nickel # seen with a screw on the balance bridge 207 61 18 - fp h n 2-4 l q 7 U - - f gb # half nickel 208 63 18 - fp o n 5 p q 7 U - - f gb # half nickel 209 75 6 - 3/4 h g 2 p q 7 U - - f gb 210 92 16 - 3/4 h n 6 p q 7 U - - f gb # half nickel 211 94 16 - 3/4 o n 7 p q 7 U - - f gb # half nickel 212 92 16 - 3/4 h g 6 p q 7 U - - f gb 213 94 16 - 3/4 o g 7 p q 7 U - - f gb 214 89 18 - 3/4 o n 8 l q 23 A-A5P - - r jb VER # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: VER(1) # 1950 MC says "REG_RR" started in 13425501 # seen advertised as VER in "Bogle Brothers" JC in EWC pg 82 # SN13121612 seen marked "A5P" on ebay 193091541 # SN9542625 seen marked "Adjusted" on ebay 210984044 # SN16022964 seen marked "A5P" on ebay 213161326 215 63 18 - fp o g 5 p q 7 U - - f gb 216 75 6 - 3/4 h n 2 p q 15 U - - f gb # half nickel # seen with a screw on the balance bridge # SN9123039 seen *not* marked "adjusted" on ebay 199823039 217 61 18 - fp h n 2-4 l q 15 U - - f gb # half nickel # SN9713255 seen *not* marked "adjusted" on ebay 196275315 # SN9768941 seen *not* marked "adjusted" on ebay 196443761 218 63 18 - fp o n 5 p q 15 U - - f gb # half nickel 219 84 0 - 3/4 h g 1 p q 7 U - - f gb 220 92 16 - 3/4 h n 6 p q 15 U - - f gb # half nickel # SN9894066 seen *not* marked "adjusted" on ebay 210694596 221 94 16 - 3/4 o n 7 p q 15 U - - f gb # half nickel # SN10439878 seen *not* marked as "adjusted" on ebay 193749396 222 84 0 - 3/4 h n 1 p q 7 U - - f gb # half nickel # seen with a screw on the balance bridge 223 84 0 - 3/4 h n 1 p q 15 U - - f gb # half nickel # seen with a screw on the balance bridge # SN9076924 seen *not* marked as "adjusted" on ebay 198669855 224 85 0 - 3/4 h n 2 p q 11 U - - f mb # is this right: motor barrel w/ free regulator? # half nickel 225 86 0 - 3/4 o n 3 p q 11 U - - f mb # is this right: motor barrel w/ free regulator? # half nickel 226 5 18 - fp h g 2-4 l q 17 U - - f gb # SN8039409 seen marked "17j", namless and *not* marked "Adjusted" on ebay 247758980 227 10 18 - fp o g 5 p q 17 ? - - f gb 228 5 18 - fp h n 2-4 l q 17 ? - - e gb # half nickel 229 10 18 - fp o n 5 p q 17 U - - e gb # half nickel # SN8227833 seen *not* marked as "adjusted" on ebay 197440365 230 56 6 - 3/4 h g 2 p q 16 U - - f gb # SN8174790 seen *not* marked as "adjusted" on ebay 221841476 231 56 6 - 3/4 h n 2 p q 16 U - - f gb # SN8002051 seen *not* marked as "adjusted" on ebay 241963149 232 87 12 - 3/4 h n 2 p q 7 U - - f gb # half nickel 233 87 12 - 3/4 h n 2 p q 15 U - - f gb # half nickel # SN9440244 seen *not* marked as "adjusted" on ebay 263727046 234 88 12 - 3/4 o n 3 p q 7 U - - f gb # half nickel 235 88 12 - 3/4 o n 3 p q 15 U - - f gb # half nickel # SN9190986 seen *not* marked as "adjusted" on ebay 278012143 236 68 12 - 3/4 h n 2 p q 21 A - - e mb # SN8539450 seen as "nameless 21j Adjusted" on ebay 313674415 237 72 12 - 3/4 o n 3 p q 21 ? - - e mb 238 61 18 - fp h g 1 k q 7 U - - f gb 239 90 18 - 3/4 o n 8 l q 21 A-A5P - - r mb VER 349 # is this really A5P? # being marked "349" is very rare # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: FT(2), VER(2) # seen advertised as VER in "Bogle Brothers" JC in EWC pg 82 # SN10441800 seen marked as "VER Adjusted" on ebay 187458208 # SN15574513 seen marked as "No 349 A5P" in Bob Cantor's collection. He says that he has heard of at least one more marked like this 240 91 18 - 3/4 o n 8 l q 19 A-A5P WI - r mb BWR # are mvt before SN11451001 not marked as BWR? (this is implied by the 1915 MC) (from what I can tell, they are all marked BWR... Hmmm.. # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: BWR(1) # seen advertised as BWR in "Bogle Brothers" JC in EWC pg 84 # the page of WI parts and diagrams in EWC lists 240 as the basis for the diagrams # SN9776689 seen marked as "BWR adjusted" in my collection # SN13745156 seen marked as "BWR A5P" on ebay 197920293 # SN11586231 seen marked as "BWR Adjusted" on ebay 211211704 # SN9776613 seen marked as "BWR Adjusted" on ebay 210352971 241 33 16 - 3/4 hb n 6 p q 17 A - - e gb # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: GMW(4) 242 33 16 - 3/4 hb n 6 p q 17 A - - e gb # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: GMW(4) # SN10375344 seen marked as "adjusted" on ebay 191088270 243 32 16 - 3/4 hb n 6 p q 17 ? - - e gb 244 38 16 - 3/4 ob n 7 p q 17 A - - e gb # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: GMW(3) #245 38 16 - 3/4 ob n 7 p q 17 ? - - e gb # listed in 1950 MC, but not used 246 37 16 - 3/4 ob n 7 p q 17 ? - - e gb 247 93 16 - 3/4 hb n 6 p q 15 U - - e gb # half nickel # SN10008184 seen *not* marked "adjusted" on ebay 200937812 248 95 16 - 3/4 ob n 7 p q 15 U - - e gb # half nickel # SN10629780 seen *not* marked "adjusted" on ebay 212745425 249 62 18 - fp h g 2-4 l q 17 A - - e gb # SN10176540 seen as "17j Adjusted" on ebay 212783477 250 64 18 - fp o g 5 p q 17 A - - e gb # SN10444515 seen marked "Adj" on ebay 192121433 251 61 18 - fp h g 2-4 l q 7 U - - f gb 252 65 18 - fp o n 7 l q 21 A - - e gb FT # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: FT(4) # SN10813180 seen marked "Adj" on ebay 194991454 253 87 12 - 3/4 h g 2 p q 7 U - - f gb 254 88 12 - 3/4 o g 3 p q 7 U - - f gb 255 97 10/0 - 3/4 o n 1 p q 15 U - - f gb LDY # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: LDY(2) # seen implied advertising as Unadjusted in "Bogle Brothers" JC in EWC pg 92 # SN10446472 seen as "Lady elgin" *not* marked "adjusted on ebay 204463797 256 96 10/0 - 3/4 o n 1 p q 17 ? - - f gb # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: LDY(2) # seen implied advertising as Unadjusted in "Bogle Brothers" JC in EWC pg 92 257 92 16 - 3/4 h n 6 p q 15 ? - - e gb # half nickel #pg 4 258 94 16 - 3/4 o n 7 p q 15 U - - e gb # half nickel 259 87 12 - 3/4 h n 2 p q 15 ? - - e gb # half nickel 260 88 12 - 3/4 o n 3 p q 15 U - - e gb # half nickel # SN8986419 seen as *not* marked "Adjusted" on ebay 247915507 261 61 18 - fp h n 2-4 l q 15 ? - - e gb # half nickel 262 63 18 - fp o n 5 p q 15 ? - - e gb # half nickel 263 77 0 - 3/4 h n 2 p q 17 A - - e gb # seen implied advertising as Adjusted in "Bogle Brothers" JC in EWC pg 92 # SN16411482 seen as "17j Adjusted" on ebay 322913860 264 81 0 - 3/4 o n 3 p q 17 A - - e gb # seen implied advertising as Adjusted in "Bogle Brothers" JC in EWC pg 92 # SN16482582 seen as "17j Adjusted" on ebay 295990437 265 66 18 - fp o n 7 l q 17 ? - - e gb # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: OVR(2) 266 65 18 - fp o n 7 l q 17-21 A - - e gb - FT # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: FT(4), BWR(3) # APWB-E says this can be nameless or FT, but no mention of BWR # SN6655197 seen as "FT 21j Adjusted" on www.pmtime.com/pockets/elgin/ke103.htm 267 85 0 - 3/4 h n 2 p q 15 U - - f gb # half nickel # SN10449489 seen *not* marked as "adjusted" on ebay 197561873 268 86 0 - 3/4 o n 3 p q 15 ? - - f gb # half nickel 269 85 0 - 3/4 h n 2 p q 7 U - - f gb # half nickel 270 98 16 - 3/4 ob n 9 l q 21 A - - e gb 270 VER # Veritas is less common # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: VER(1) # SN11824744 seen marked as "Veritas" on ebay 160346868 # SN11635236 said to be marked "270" on ebay 155936393 # SN12784371 seen marked as "Veritas Adjusted" in my collection # SN9305266 seen marked as "270 Adjusted" in my collection # SN12784038 said to be marked "Veritas" on ebay 203917550 # SN12784xxx seen marked as "Veritas Adjusted" on ebay 207223474 271 60 0 - 3/4 h n 1 p q 16 ? - - e gb 272 56 6 - 3/4 h n 2 p q 16 ? - - e gb 273 65 18 - fp o n 7 l q 17 ? - - e gb # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: BWR(3) 274 99 18 - 3/4 h n 9 l q 21 A5P - - e mb 274 VER FT BWR - # BWR is rarest, 274 the most common # The NAWCC bulletin v39/5 num 310 has a good article on the G=274 # The quick summary is that there were at most 87 BWRs, 321 FTs, # 1373 VERs, and 2219 274s. # # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: FT(1), BWR(1), VER(1) # the 1950 MC says that this should be REG_RR_PAT, but Bob Cantor says that he has never seen one so equiped. # SN10513868 seen marked "274 A5P REG_ELGIN" on ebay 211753214 # SN10854944 said to be namless (not marked 274, just Elgin) by Greg Frauenhoff 275 100 12 - 3/4 h n 2 p q 17 A - - e gb # half nickel # SN10388856 seen as "nameless 17j Adjusted" (adjusted on balance cock, but real blury) on ebay 299468681 276 101 12 - 3/4 o n 3 p q 17 ? - - e gb # half nickel 277 65 18 - fp o n 7 l q 21 A - - e gb # listed in 1915 MC, but not used # SN8490094 seen as "nameless 21j Adjusted" on ebay 300970239 278 4 18 - fp h n 2-4 l q 17 ? - - e gb OVR # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: OVR(2) # SN10123828 seen as "OVR 17j", pic too blury to tell if it is adjusted or not on ebay 288340171 279 9 18 - fp o n 5 p q 17 A - - e gb OVR # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: OVR(3) # SN10125018 seen marked "Overland Adjusted" (missing barrel bridge, so can't tell if it is marked 17j) in my collection # SN11507134 seen marked "Overland 17j Adjusted" in my collection 280 102 16 - 3/4 ob n 9 l q 17 A - - e gb - BWR 280 # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: BWR(1) # according to Shugart's the BWR marking is 2-star (<1000 made), while the ones marked "280" are "common" (>2500) and unmarked ones are even more common. # SN10855550 seen marked "BWR Adjusted" on ebay 198092073 # SN10128573 seen marked "280 Adjusted" on ebay 236970582 281 85 0 - 3/4 h n 2 p q 11 U - - f gb # half nickel 282 86 0 - 3/4 o n 3 p q 7 U - - f gb # half nickel 283 66 18 - fp o n 7 l q 17 ? - - e gb # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: OVR(2) 284 75 6 - 3/4 h g 2 p q 15 ? - - f gb 285 63 18 - fp o g 5 p q 15 ? - - f gb 286 115 6 - 3/4 h n 2 p q 7 U - - f gb # half nickel # seen with a screw on the balance bridge 287 105 18 - fp h n 2-4 l q 7 U - - f gb # half nickel 288 106 18 - fp o n 5 p q 7 U - - f gb # half nickel 289 115 6 - 3/4 h g 2 p q 7 U - - f gb # seen with a screw on the balance bridge 290 109 16 - 3/4 h n 6 p q 7 U - - f gb # half nickel 291 110 16 - 3/4 o n 7 p q 7 U - - f gb # half nickel 292 109 16 - 3/4 h g 6 p q 7 U - - f gb 293 110 16 - 3/4 o g 7 p q 7 U - - f gb 294 106 18 - fp o g 5 p q 7 U - - f gb 295 115 6 - 3/4 h n 2 p q 15 U - - f gb # half nickel # seen with a screw on the balance bridge # seen implied advertising as Unadjusted in "Bogle Brothers" JC in EWC pg 91 # SN10781515 seen as *not* marked as "adjusted" on ebay 191090348 296 105 18 - fp h n 2-4 l q 15 U - - f gb # half nickel # SN12243714 seen as *not* marked as "adjusted" on ebay 199842123 # SN10736470 seen as *not* marked as 'adjusted" on ebay 202111174 297 106 18 - fp o n 5 p q 15 U - - f gb # half nickel # SN11222541 seen as *not* marked as "adjusted" on ebay 191951118 298 116 0 - 3/4 h g 2 p q 7 U - - f gb 299 109 16 - 3/4 h n 6 p q 15 U - - f gb # half nickel # SN11324192 seen as *not* marked as "adjusted" on ebay 210529312 300 110 16 - 3/4 o n 7 p q 15 U - - f gb # half nickel # SN11481902 seen as *not* marked as "adjusted" on ebay 203188336 301 113 12 - 3/4 h n 2 p q 7 U - - f gb # half nickel 302 113 12 - 3/4 h n 2 p q 15 U - - f gb # half nickel # SN11484698 seen as *not* marked as "adjusted" on ebay 254450375 303 114 12 - 3/4 o n 3 p q 7 U - - f gb # half nickel 304 114 12 - 3/4 o n 3 p q 15 ? - - f gb # half nickel 305 107 16 - 3/4 hb n 6 p q 15 U - - e gb # half nickel # SN10956608 seen as *not* marked as "adjusted" on ebay 206317997 306 108 16 - 3/4 ob n 7 p q 15 U - - e gb # half nickel # ebay 218922828 has a watch that is almost certainly a 306 and is pretty clearly not marked as Adjusted 11???2?6 s=16 n of b j=15 # SN11654777 seen as *not* marked "Adjusted" on ebay 253226692 307 103 18 - fp h g 2-4 l q 17 A - - e gb # SN10760704 seen marked as "adjusted" on ebay 185397776 308 104 18 - fp o g 5 p q 17 A - - e gb # SN11494353 seen marked "adjusted" in my collection 309 105 18 - fp h g 2-4 l q 7 U - - f gb 310 113 12 - 3/4 h g 2 p q 7 U - - f gb 311 114 12 - 3/4 o g 3 p q 7 U - - f gb 312 109 16 - 3/4 h n 6 p q 15 U - - e gb # half nickel # seen implied advertising as Unadjusted in "Bogle Brothers" JC in EWC pg 88 # SN24836159 seen *not* marked as "adjusted" on ebay 188081693 # SN12479894 seen with gold screws on ebay 306784825 313 110 16 - 3/4 o n 7 p q 15 U - - e gb # half nickel # seen implied advertising as Unadjusted in "Bogle Brothers" JC in EWC pg 88 # SN13233641 seen with gold screws on ebay 217117143 # SN18909902 said to be "two-tone" in Jon Hanson's collection 314 113 12 - 3/4 h n 2 p q 15 U - - e gb # half nickel # seen implied advertising as Unadjusted in "Bogle Brothers" JC in EWC pg 91 # SN24023432 seen *not* marked as "adjusted" on ebay 199820441 315 114 12 - 3/4 o n 3 p q 15 U - - e gb # half nickel # seen implied advertising as Unadjusted in "Bogle Brothers" JC in EWC pg 91 316 105 18 - fp h n 2-4 l q 15 U - - e gb # half nickel # seen implied advertising as Unadjusted in "Bogle Brothers" JC in EWC pg 85 # SN13264322 seen *not* marked as "adjusted" on ebay 219261572 317 106 18 - fp o n 5 p q 15 U - - e gb # half nickel # seen implied advertising as Unadjusted in "Bogle Brothers" JC in EWC pg 85 # shugart says that some of these are marked "adjusted" # SN22447396 seen *not* marked as "adjusted" on ebay 189588920 # SN24434840 seen *not* marked as "adjusted" on ebay 189676808 318 116 0 - 3/4 h n 2 p q 15 U - - f gb # half nickel # SN11015695 seen *not* marked as 'adjusted" on ebay 219532912 319 117 0 - 3/4 o n 3 p q 15 U - - f gb # half nickel # SN12582884 seen as "nameless 15j" and *not* marked "adjusted" on www.pocketwatcher.org/elgin.html 320 116 0 - 3/4 h n 2 p q 7 U - - f gb # half nickel # SN13874247 seen as having gold screws on ebay 213237820 321 111 12 - 3/4 h n 2 p q 17 A - - e gb # half nickel # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: GMW(2) # sn11503629 seen as Adjusted on ebay 186885909 322 112 12 - 3/4 o n 3 p q 17 ? - - e gb # half nickel # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: GMW(2) 323 116 0 - 3/4 h n 2 p q 11 U - - f gb # half nickel 324 117 0 - 3/4 o n 3 p q 7 U - - f gb # half nickel 325 115 6 - 3/4 h g 2 p q 15 U - - f gb # SN14567375 seen *not* marked as "adjusted" on ebay 209938786 326 106 18 - fp o g 5 p q 15 U - - f gb # last grade mentioned in the 1904 MC # no adjust mark seen on ebay 183997882 327 118 18 - fp h n 10 l q 16 ? - - b gb 333 # Made for Ball Watch Co marked "333" on mvt(?) # Dan Andersion says: "Commercial Standard" 328 118 18 - fp h n 10 l q 17 ? - - b gb 333 # Made for Ball Watch Co marked "333" on mvt(?) # Dan Andersion says: "Commercial Standard" 329 119 18 - fp h n 10 l q 17 ? - - b gb 333 # Made for Ball Watch Co # Dan Andersion says: "Railroad Standard" # SN11958187 is seen marked "333" on mvt on ebay 176126772 330 119 18 - fp h n 10 l q 21 ? - - b gb 333 # Made for Ball Watch Co marked "333" on mvt(?) # Dan Andersion says: "Railroad Standard" 331 120 18 - fp o n 11 p q 16 ? - - b gb 333 # Made for Ball Watch Co marked "333" on mvt(?) # Dan Andersion says: "Commercial Standard" # SN11853068 seen as being marked " (later: too old to finish this line) 332 120 18 - fp o n 11 p q 17 A - - b gb 333 # Made for Ball Watch Co # Dan Andersion says: "Commercial Standard" # SN11855455 seen as "17j Adjusted 'Commercial Standard' 'Ball Wach co Cleveland O'" (not marked "333" on mvt) on ebay 285862313 333 121 18 - fp o n 11 l q 17 A - - b gb 333 # Made for Ball Watch Co marked "333" on mvt # APWB-E says: "Railroad Standard" # SN11857131 seen as "333 17j Adjusted 'official RR standard'" on ebay 310529738 334 121 18 - fp o n 11 l q 21 ? - - b gb 333 # Made for Ball Watch Co marked "333" on mvt(?) # according to TOWRR, this is marked "333" on mvt # Dan Andersion says: "Railroad Standard" 335 105 18 - fp h n 2-4 l q 17 U - - e gb # 1915 MC lists this as begin just "model 4", but this is the only grade that isn't marked as 2-4 # seen implied advertising as Unadjusted in "Bogle Brothers" JC in EWC pg 85 # SN12002092 seen *not* marked as "adjusted" on ebay 194844375 336 106 18 - fp o n 5 p q 17 U - - e gb # seen implied advertising as Unadjusted in "Bogle Brothers" JC in EWC pg 85 # SN22375561 seen *not* marked as "adjusted" on ebay 188086590 # SN19018971 seen *not* marked as "adjusted" on ebay 193684570 # SN12102880 seen with gold colored screws on ebay 217876409 337 33 16 - 3/4 hb n 6 p q 17 A - - e gb GMW - # nameless appears to be much less common # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: GMW(4) # SN11900124 seen marked "GMW adjusted" in my collection 338 38 16 - 3/4 ob n 7 p q 17 A - - e gb GMW # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: GMW(3) # seen advertised as GMW in "Bogle Brothers" JC in EWC pg 87 # SN13710578 seen marked "GMW Adjusted" on ebay 211850677 339 107 16 - 3/4 hb n 6 p q 17 U - - e gb # SN12713160 seen *not* marked as "adjusted" on ebay 189960559 # SN14520471 seen *not* marked as "adjusted" on ebay 197246952 # SN12118692 seen with gold screws on ebay 309250115 340 108 16 - 3/4 ob n 7 p q 17 U - - e gb 341 125 16 - 3/4 hb n 8 l q 17 A - - e gb BWR # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: BWR(1) # SN12283541 seen marked "17j BWR Adjusted" on ebay 262828437 342 127 16 - 3/4 ob n 9 l q 17 A4P - - e gb - GMW # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: GMW(1) # I have ebay 151182397 recording this as being A4P, but no mention of GMW # SN12284588 said to be "(4) adjustment", no mention of GMW on ebay 269005628 WOAH! this was not a bridge model! can't read SN to verify... 343 122 18 - fp o n 7 l q 17 ? - - e gb GMW # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: GMW(1) 344 113 12 - 3/4 h n 2 p q 17 U - - e gb # seen implied advertising as Unadjusted in "Bogle Brothers" JC in EWC pg 91 # SN13182262 seen *not* marked as "adjusted" on ebay 207381747 345 114 12 - 3/4 o n 3 p q 17 U - - e gb # seen implied advertising as Unadjusted in "Bogle Brothers" JC in EWC pg 91 # SN19779746 seen marked as "Strand adj4P" unusual damaskeening on ebay 189596324 346 111 12 - 3/4 h n 2 p q 17 A - - e gb GMW # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: GMW(2) # SN16529957 said to be marked "GMW 17j Adjusted" on ebay 245161692 #pg 5 347 112 12 - 3/4 o n 3 p q 17 A-A3P - - e gb GMW # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: GMW(2) # seen advertised as GMW in "Bogle Brothers" JC in EWC pg 90 # SN19458304 seen marked "A3P" on ebay 190304056 # SN14521369 seen marked "Adjusted" on ebay 213138585 # SN19093075 seen marked "A3P" on ebay 214834722 # SN19458984 seen marked "A3P" on ebay 216358663 348 1 18 - fp h n 2-4 l q 21 A - - e gb 348 # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: FT(2) # some of these were originally from runs of grade 183 # seen implied advertising as 348 in "Bogle Brothers" JC in EWC pg 84 # SN11612904 seen marked "348 21j Adjusted" on ebay 231591478 349 65 18 - fp o n 7 l q 21 A-A5P - - r gb 349 FT # Father Time is rarer # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: FT(4) # seen advertised as 349 in "Bogle Brothers" JC in EWC pg 84 # the first two runs of 349 were marked as 180 in the 1915 MC, the third was marked as 252 # SN13714106 seen marked "Adjusted FT" in my collection # seen as FT: (SN12739712 146873609) (SN13714106 141625329) # seen as 349: (SN11416490 171363620) (SN13329305 167325392) (SN13633769 156338115) (SN14058502 149050534) (SN13183085 141496386,123001526) (SN11819696 139000969, 133738025) (SN12980379 131935682) (SN15227826 127484213) (SN10470926 209951849) # SN13885667 seen marked "349 21j A5P" on ebay 229364366 350 98 16 - 3/4 o n 13 l q 23 ? - - e jb VER # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: VER(1) # SN12717908 said to be marked "Veritas" on ebay 151429010 # SN12717783 said to be marked "Veritas" on ebay 180714130 351 41 16 - 3/4 o n 7 p q 23 A5P - - e jb LE # first run is pend set, second run is lever set. # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: LE(1) # seen advertised as LE in "Bogle Brothers" JC in EWC pg 86 # SN15159042 seen as "A5P" on ebay 192239632 # SN12718001 seen on tulsa-time.com # SN15159018 seen on tulsa-time.com # SN12718462 seen on ebay 181875111 352 123 18 - fp h n 2-4 l q 17 ? - - e gb OVR GMW # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: OVR(1), GMW(1) 353 124 18 - fp o n 7 l q 17 A - - e gb GMW OVR - # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: OVR(1), GMW(1) # SN13067424 seen as Overland Adj # SN12912545 seen marked as "GMW Adj" on ebay 196533848 354 116 0 - 3/4 h n 2 p q 15 U - - e gb # seen implied advertising as Unadjusted in "Bogle Brothers" JC in EWC pg 92 # SN16405580 seen *not* marked as "adjusted" on ebay 191737025 355 117 0 - 3/4 o n 3 p q 15 U - - e gb # seen implied advertising as Unadjusted in "Bogle Brothers" JC in EWC pg 92 # SN16779992 seen *not* marked as "adjusted" on ebay 202509106 356 128 16 14 3/4 o n 2 p q 7 U - - f gb LES # requires a unique case # I'm not sure about the sizes of these lord elgin series (LES) # watches. The movements look to be regular size 12 model 3's, # but the dials are size 14. This makes them similar to the # streamline watches introduced right as the LES were being phased # out. However, Elgin lists streamlines as "size 12" instead of # "size 14". Checking the 1950 MC, it appears that these LES # watches share a lot of parts with the 12s m=3 watches. # # APWB-E pg 145 says "Complete watches gives the appearance of # a thing Model 16 Size.", and that's what I've marked it as, but # I think it really should be "14s/12s", rather than "16s/14s". # However, if I changed it to "14s/12s", it would show up as a 12s # watch on all the lists/searches and contradict Elgin's description. 357 128 16 14 3/4 o n 2 p q 15 U - - e gb LES # requires a unique case # seen implied advertising as Unadjusted in "Bogle Brothers" JC in EWC pg 89 # see notes on grade 356 358 128 16 14 3/4 o n 2 p q 17 U - - e gb LES # requires a unique case # seen implied advertising as Unadjusted in "Bogle Brothers" JC in EWC pg 89 # see notes on grade 356 359 129 16 14 3/4 o n 2 p q 17 A - - e gb LES # requires a unique case # seen implied advertising as adjusted in "Bogle Brothers" JC in EWC pg 89 # see notes on grade 356 360 98 16 - 3/4 o n 13 l q 21 A - - e gb VER # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: VER(1) # SN13482586 seen marked "VER 21j Adjusted" on ebay 246124830 361 102 16 - 3/4 o n 13 l q 17 A5P - - e gb BWR # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: BWR(1) # SN13506854 said to be marked "BWR A5P" on ebay 234057101. pics too blury to verify everything, but it looks reasonable # 362 is not listed in the Elgin 1915 "Grades of Movements" table no info in 1950 MC 363 113 12 - 3/4 h g 2 p q 15 U - - f gb # SN14572429 seen *not* marked as "adjusted" on ebay 217875116 364 114 12 - 3/4 o g 3 p q 15 U - - f gb # SN18657466 seen *not* marked as "adjusted" on ebay 269315934< 365 109 16 - 3/4 h g 6 p q 15 U - - f gb # SN14289043 seen *not* marked as "adjusted" on ebay 237710505 366 110 16 - 3/4 o g 7 p q 15 ? - - f gb 367 90 18 - 3/4 o n 8 l q 21 A5P WI - r mb FT # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: FT(2), VER(2) # seen advertised as FT in "Bogle Brothers" JC in EWC pg 82 # SN14578035 seen marked as "FT A5P also marked Adjusted on balance cock" in my collection 368 130 18 - 3/4 h n 9 l q 17 A - - e gb GMW # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: GMW(1) # SN15463279 seen marked as "GMW Adjusted" in my collection 369 131 18 - 3/4 o n 8 l q 17 A - - e gb GMW # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: GMW(2) # seen advertised as GMW in "Bogle Brothers" JC in EWC pg 84 # SN14788968 seen marked as "GMW Adjusted" on ebay 216534005 370 102 16 - 3/4 o n 15 l q 17 A5P - - r mb BWR # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: BWR(1) # seen advertised as BWR in "Bogle Brothers" JC in EWC pg 87 # SN14845441 said to be marked "A5P" on ebay 155333070 # SN15502317 said to be marked "BWR A5P 17j" on ebay 154322978 # SN14525005 said to be marked "A5P" on ebay 181035297 # SN14845??? said to be marked "BWR 17j A5P" on ebay 198999242 371 126 16 - 3/4 h n 14 l q 19 ? - - r jb BWR # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: BWR(1) 372 98 16 - 3/4 o n 15 l q 19 A5P WI - r jb BWR # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: BWR(1) # seen advertised as BWR in "Bogle Brothers" JC in EWC pg 87 # SN17539468 seen as "BWR 19j A5P" on ebay 198290905 373 126 16 - 3/4 h n 14 l q 21 A5P - - r mb FT # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: FT(1) # SN16677676 seen marked as "A5P" on ebay 193636850 374 98 16 - 3/4 o n 15 l q 21 A5P WI - r mb FT # I once had this marked as having unamed mvts, why? # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: FT(4), BWR(4), VER(4) # seen advertised as FT in "Bogle Brothers" JC in EWC pg 87 # SN14229442 seen marked as "FT A5P" on ebay 196086398 375 98 16 - 3/4 o n 15 l q 21 A5P - - r mb VER FT # not sure which naming is more common # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: FT(4), BWR(4), VER(4) # seen advertised as VER in "Bogle Brothers" JC in EWC pg 86 # ebay 133954889 said to be "veritas 375", too old to verify # SN16971292 clearly seen as "FT A5P 21j r mb" 376 132 16 - 3/4 o n 15 l q 23 A5P WI - r jb VER # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: VER(1) # seen advertised as VER in "Bogle Brothers" JC in EWC pg 86 # shugart says that this can be marked BWR 377 116 0 - 3/4 h g 2 p q 15 U - - e gb # SN14526869 seen as *not* marked "Adjusted" on ebay 293750755 378 105 18 - fp h n 2-4 l q 17 A - - e gb # seen implied advertising as Adjusted in "Bogle Brothers" JC in EWC pg 85 # shugart's says that this is 17-19j # SN15874517 seen as "nameless 17j Adjusted" on ebay 267010512 379 106 18 - fp o n 5 p q 17 ? - - e gb # seen implied advertising as Adjusted in "Bogle Brothers" JC in EWC pg 85 # shugart's says that this is 17-19j 380 133 5/0 - 3/4 h n 1 p q 15 ? - - f gb # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: LDY(2), LDR(2) # seen implied advertising as Unadjusted in "Bogle Brothers" JC in EWC pg 92 381 107 16 - 3/4 hb n 6 p q 17 A - - e gb # seen implied advertising as Adjusted in "Bogle Brothers" JC in EWC pg 88 382 108 16 - 3/4 ob n 7 p q 17 A - - e gb - OVR STR # seen implied advertising as Adjusted in "Bogle Brothers" JC in EWC pg 88 # SN19952516 seen marked as "Strand A4P" on ebay 161178979 # SN19343216 seen marked as Overlands on ebay 190295492 unusual damaskeening # SN18582443 see as marked None in my collection 383 113 12 - 3/4 h n 2 p q 17 A - - e gb # seen implied advertising as Adjusted in "Bogle Brothers" JC in EWC pg 90 # SN15811120 seen marked as "17j Adjusted" on ebay 196189780 384 114 12 - 3/4 o n 3 p q 17 A - - e gb # seen implied advertising as Adjusted in "Bogle Brothers" JC in EWC pg 90 385 134 18 - 3/4 o n 8 l q 17 A5P - - r mb BWR # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: BWR(1) # seen advertised as BWR in "Bogle Brothers" JC in EWC pg 84 # SN16481673 marked "BWR 17j A5P" on ebay 236711056 386 109 16 - 3/4 h n 6 p q 17 U - - e gb # seen implied advertising as Unadjusted in "Bogle Brothers" JC in EWC pg 88 # SN20373010 seen as *not* marked "adj" on ebay 197489865 387 110 16 - 3/4 o n 7 p q 17 U - - e gb # seen implied advertising as Unadjusted in "Bogle Brothers" JC in EWC pg 88 # SN33867140 seen as *not* marked "adj" on ebay 192020233 # SN42353003 seen in a BM case marked "ORD. DEPT., USA, OB-21059", luminous(?) hr markers monty dial on ebay 211714525 (only one I've seen in a military case...) 388 98 16 - 3/4 o n 15 l q 21 A5P - - r gb FT # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: FT(4), BWR(4), VER(4) # SN20151?35 seen marked as "FT A5P" on ebay 199446202 389 134 18 - 3/4 o n 8 l q 21 A5P - - r gb FT # some said to be two-tone # note: I used to have this marked BWR, probably from High_grade_info, but I have no idea why I marked it BWR there... # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: FT(1) # Shugart's says that there are G=389 BWR's # SN16135069 said to be "FT 21j LS A5P gold trimmed" in Jon Hanson's collection (gold trimed == all steel items are gold colored. i.e. screws, gears, regulator, etc., but not the nickel plates) 390 91 18 - 3/4 o n 8 l q 21 A5P WI - r mb BWR # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: BWR(2) # seen advertised as BWR in "Bogle Brothers" JC in EWC pg 82 # SN15900448 seen as "WI", said to be "BWR A5P 21j" on ebay 219773444 391 98 16 - 3/4 o n 15 l q 21 A5P WI - r mb BWR FT # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: FT(4), BWR(4), VER(4) # seen advertised as BWR in "Bogle Brothers" JC in EWC pg 86 # SN16136122 seen as "BWR 21j A5P" on ebay 244660507 # SN17269009 seen as "FT 21j A5P WI" on ebay 266896068 # SN17269881 seen as "BWR 21j A5P WI" on ebay 289111911 392 135 14 12 3/4 o n 4 p q 17 ? - - e gb LE # is this really a LE? 1950 MC says "12s spec" dial # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: LE(1) # SN16311007 seen advertised as "LE" in 1917 Oskamp-Nolting 393 113 16 12 3/4 h g 2 p q 7 U - - f gb # 1950 MC says "12x16s" dial/hands 394 114 16 12 3/4 o g 3 p q 7 U - - f gb # 1950 MC says "12x16s" dial/hands 395 113 16 12 3/4 h g 2 p q 15 ? - - f gb # 1950 MC says "12x16s" dial/hands 396 114 16 12 3/4 o g 3 p q 15 U - - f gb # 1950 MC says "12x16s" dial/hands # SN17339495 seen as *not* marked "Adjusted", but *does* have a 16s dial plate! on ebay 271205057 397 33 16 - 3/4 hb n 6 p q 17 ? - - e gb # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: GMW(4) 398 38 16 - 3/4 ob n 7 p q 17 ? - - e gb # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: GMW(3) 399 136 5/0 - 3/4 o n 2 p q 15 ? - - f gb LDR # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: LDR(1) 400 131 18 - 3/4 o n 8 l q 17 ? - - e gb # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: GMW(2) 401 126 16 - 3/4 h n 17 l q 19 ? - - r jb BWR # note: I used to have this marked VER, probably from High_grade_info, but I have no idea why I marked it VER there... # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: BWR(1) # shugart's says this can be # shugart's says this can be "19j VER" and also "21j VER" maybe the later is supposed to be G=402? 402 126 16 - 3/4 h n 17 l q 21 ? - - r mb FT # note: I used to have this marked VER, probably from High_grade_info, but I have no idea why I marked it VER there... # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: FT(1) 403 133 5/0 - 3/4 h n 1 p q 7 U - - f gb 404 97 10/0 - 3/4 o n 1 p q 15 U - - f gb LDY # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: LDY(2) # SN18377920 seen as "LDY", but pic to blury to see if it is marked "Adjusted" (it looks like it isn't) on ebay 280237656 # SN18876787 seen as "LDY 15j" and *not* marked "Adjusted" on ebay 296548709 405 96 10/0 - 3/4 o n 1 p q 17 ? - - f gb # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: LDY(2) 406 116 0 - 3/4 h g 2 p q 13 ? - - f gb 407 135 14 12 3/4 o n 4 p q 21 ? - - e gb LE # is this really a LE? # 1950 MC says "special" dial # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: LE(1) 408 133 5/0 - 3/4 h n 1 p q 15 ? - - f gb - LDR # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: LDY(2), LDR(2) 409 117 0 - 3/4 o g 3 p q 7 U - - f gb 410 117 0 - 3/4 o g 3 p q 15 ? - - e gb # SN1744288? appears (pic is real blury) to be "15j" and *not* marked "Adjusted" on ebay 318490984 411 106 18 - fp o t 5 p q 21 U - - e gb # SN17288843 seen as two-tone and *not* marked "Adjusted" in my collection # SN17288484 said to be two-tone in Jon Hanson's collection 412 91 18 - 3/4 o n 8 l q 21 A3P - - r mb # 1915 MC "Grade of Mvt" list implies possible marking: BWR(2) # SN16373313 is WI, said to be "21j A3P" on ebay 213820495 413 116 3/0 - 3/4 h n 2 p q 7 U - - f gb 414 117 3/0 - 3/4 o n 3 p q 7 U - - f gb 415 116 3/0 - 3/4 h n 2 p q 15 ? - - e gb 416 117 3/0 - 3/4 o n 3 p q 15 ? - - e gb # last grade mentioned in the 1915 MC #end# of the Elgin "Grades of Movements" table #grade class size plate style finish model sett train jewels 417 ? 3/0 - 3/4 h n ? p q 7 U - - f gb # SN19808207 seen as "3/4 h n ? p q ? ? - - f gb" in a *very* blury pic on ebay 300820908 418 ? 3/0 - 3/4 o n 3 p q 7 U - - f gb # SN20155139 seen as "3/4 o n ? ? q 7j U - - f gb" on ebay 226438964 # m=3 PS determined by Swigart's and ebay 226438964 419 ? 3/0 - 3/4 h n 2 p q 15 U - - e gb # SN18812833 seen as "3/4 o n ? ? q 15j U - - e gb" on Timezone article 11474 # m=2 PS determined by Swigart's and timezone article 11474 420 ? 3/0 - 3/4 o n 3 p q 15 U - - e gb # SN19258196 seen as "3/4 o n ? ? q 15j U - - e gb" on ebay 246387027 # m=3 PS determined by Swigart's and ebay 246387027 421 ? ? - ? ? ? ? ? q ? ? - - ? ? # no info in 1950 MC 422 ? ? - ? ? ? ? ? q ? ? - - ? ? # no info in 1950 MC 423 ? 3/0 - 3/4 h n 3 p q 17 A - - e gb # SN18628298 seen as "3/4 h n ? p q 17j Adjusted - - e gb" on ebay 293930279 # m=3 determined by swigarts and ebay 293930279 424 ? 3/0 - ? ? ? ? p q 17 ? - - e gb 425 ? 10/0 - ? ? ? ? ? q 17 ? - - f gb 426 ? 10/0 - 3/4 o ? 4 p q 15 ? - - f gb # m=4 is according to Swigart's 427 ? 10/0 - ? ? ? ? ? q 17 ? - - f gb 428 ? 6/0 - 3/4 h n 1 p q 15 U - - f gb # m=1 is based on Swigart's and it being HC # SN32011253 seen as "3/4 h n ? p q 15j U - - f gb" on ebay 212148777 429 ? 6/0 - 3/4 o n 2 p q 15 U - - f gb # m=2 is according to Swigart's # SN21351454 seen as "3/4 o n ? p q 15 U - - f gb" on ebay 267004387 430 ? 6/0 - 3/4 h n 1 p q 7 U - - f gb # m=1 is according to Swigart's # SN29338171 seen as FINISH_NICKEL on ebay 223833179 431 ? 6/0 - 3/4 o n 2 p q 7 U - - f gb # m=2 is based off of Swigart's and it being OF # SN20842059 seen as "3/4 o n ? p q 7j U - - f gb" on ebay 210676883 # SN24208271 seen as "3/4 o n ? p q 7j U - - f gb" on ebay 215661701 432 ? 5/0 - 3/4 o n 2 p q 7 U - - f gb # SN19131713 seen as "5/0 3/4 o n ? p q 7j U - - f gb" on ebay 269130323 # m=2 based off of Swigart's and ebay 269130323 433 ? 14 12 3/4 o n 4 p q 21 ? - - e gb # 1950 MC says "streamline" 434 ? 14 12 3/4 o n 4 p q 19 ? - - e gb # 1950 MC says "streamline" 435 ? 14 12 3/4 o n 4 p q 17 ? - - e gb # 1950 MC says "streamline" 436 ? 14 12 3/4 o n 4 p q 17 ? - - e gb # 1950 MC says "streamline" 437 ? 14 12 3/4 o n 4 p q 17 ? - - e gb # 1950 MC says "streamline" 438 ? 16 12 3/4 o n 4 p q 21 ? - - e gb # 1950 MC says "streamline" and "12x16s hands" 439 ? 16 12 3/4 o n 4 p q 19 ? - - e gb # 1950 MC says "streamline" and "12x16s hands" 440 ? 16 12 3/4 o n 4 p q 17 ? - - e gb # 1950 MC says "streamline" and "12x16s hands" 441 ? 14 12 3/4 o n 4 p q 17 A2P - - e gb GMW # 1950 MC says "streamline" and "12x16s hands" # SN19310658 seen as "A2P GMW" on ebay 188450559 442 ? 3/0 - ? ? ? ? p q 7 U - - f gb 443 ? 3/0 - ? ? ? ? p q 7 U - - f gb 444 ? 10/0 - 3/4 o n 4 p q 15 U - - f gb - LDY # SN23203653 said to be marked "Lady Elgin" on ebay 206376445 # m=4 based off of Swigarts and the blury picture on ebay 220752804 # SN26508207 said to be "Lady Elgin 15j" and seen as "3/4 o n ? p q 15j ? - - f gb" on ebay 220752804 # SN28700394 seen as "3/4 o n ? p q 15 U - - f gb" nameless on ebay 227049910 445 ? 10/0 - 3/4 o n 4 p q 17 U - - f gb LDY # m=4 determined from Swigarts and ebay 215864286 # SN20045255 seen as "3/4 o n ? p q 17j U - - f gb" on ebay 215864286 446 ? 14 12 3/4 ob n 5 p q 19 A5P - - h gb HUL # special sized movement which requires a unique case # Elgin lists this as a "size 14" watch, but Shugart says this is 14s/12s. I think the latter is true. # NAWCC #191 pg 634 says this is "12s" and "has a invar balance" # SN28844083 seen marked "C. H. Hulburd 19 jewels eight adjustments" on ebay 250486209 447 ? 10/0 - 3/4 o n 4 p q 7 U - - f gb # m=4 determined from Swigarts and ebay 21383443 # SN21522778 seen as "3/4 o n ? p q 7 U - - f gb" on ebay 213834431 448 ? 12 - ? ? ? ? ? q 19 ? - - e gb # 1950 MC says "D 187" dial maybe "16s/12s ON4P"? 449 ? 16 12 3/4 o n 4 p q 17 A3P - - e gb # 1950 MC says "D 195" dial 450 ? 14 12 3/4 o n 4 p q 21 A5P - - e gb LE # 1950 MC says "streamline" and "12x16s hands" # SN28191874 seen as "A5P" on ebay 200588072 451 ? 14 12 3/4 o n 4 p q 19 A5P - - e gb LE # 1950 MC says "streamline" and "12x16s hands" # SN25269357 seen as "A5P Lord Elgin" in my collection 452 ? 14 12 3/4 o n 4 p q 17 A3P - - e gb GMW # 1950 MC says "streamline" and "12x16s hands" # Swigart says that this is a "model 10", with no models 6-9 listed 453 ? 16 - 3/4 o n 15 l q 23 A5P - - r jb VER # SN23141827 seen as marked "A5P" on ebay 193684660 454 ? 16 - 3/4 o n 15 l q 21 A5P WI - r gb FT 455 ? 16 - 3/4 o n 15 l q 19 A5P WI - r gb BWR 456 ? ? - ? ? ? ? ? q ? ? - - ? ? # no info in 1950 MC 457 ? ? - ? ? ? ? ? q ? ? - - ? ? # no info in 1950 MC 458 ? ? - ? ? ? ? ? q ? ? - - ? ? # no info in 1950 MC 459 ? ? - ? ? ? ? ? q ? ? - - ? ? # no info in 1950 MC 460 ? ? - ? ? ? ? ? q ? ? - - ? ? # no info in 1950 MC 461 ? ? - ? ? ? ? ? q ? ? - - ? ? # no info in 1950 MC 462 ? 3/0 - 3/4 h n 2 p q 7 U - - f gb # m=2 based off of Shugart's and being a HC # SN21870609 seen as "3/4 h n ? p q 7 U - - f gb" on ebay 208366110 463 ? 3/0 - 3/4 o n 3 p q 7 U - - f gb # SN24631647.seen as "3/4 o n 3 p U f gb" on ebay 191450373 464 ? 3/0 - 3/4 h n 2 p q 15 U - - e gb # SN32259268 seen as "3/4 h n ? p U f gb" on ebay 203911423 # SN31412925 seen as "3/4 h n 2 p U f gb" on ebay 322927847 465 ? 3/0 - 3/4 o n 3 p q 15 U - - e gb # SN23474343 seen as "3/4 o n ? p U f gb" on ebay 289301857 # m=3 based off of Swigart's and 289301857 466 ? 16 - 3/4 o n 13 l q 17 A4P - - e gb # these have all gold colored screws # SN21950xxx said to be lever set on ebay 153303677 (confirms model/lever) # SN21792053 seen as 3/4 o n 17j A4P e gb gold screws on ebay 192790736 # SN22962106 seen as 3/4 o n 17j A4p e gb gold screws on ebay 193626927 # SN23309466 seen w/ gold screws on ebay 216366608 467 ? 3/0 - 3/4 h g 2 p q 7 U - - f gb # SN21175764 seen as "3/4 h g 2 p q 7j U - - f gb" on ebay 314538906 468 ? 3/0 - ? ? ? ? p q 7 U - - f gb 469 ? 16 - 3/4 s f 21 p q 7 U - - f gb # 60-sec timer some of this info is guessed at # no info in 1950 MC # m=21 is of my own creation. It appears to be different than the m=20 # SN39627770 seen as "3/4 o f q free-reg gb", guessed as "16s pend set m=21" # SN41175386 seen as "3/4 o f q unadj free-req gb" on ebay 224401846 # 470 no info in 1950 MC 471 ? 37 - 3/4 o f 1 p q 7 U - 192 f gb # SN27598011 seen as FINISH_FLAT on ebay 305336845 472 ? 16 - 3/4 o n 15 l q 21 A5P WI - b gb BWR # has an "invar balance" (note balance is cut away from the spoke) otherwise identical to the 478 # SN27801914 seen as WI on ebay 208539628 473 ? 16/0 - 3/4 h ? 2 p q 17 ? - - f gb # "3/4 h ? 2 p q ? ? - - f gb" determined by Swigart's 474 ? 16 - ? ? ? ? p q ? U - - e gb # not in John Miller's list 475 ? 16 - ? ? ? ? p q ? U - - e gb # not in John Miller's list 476 ? 12 - 3/4 o n 3 p q ? U - - e gb # not in John Miller's list 477 ? 12 - 3/4 o n 3 p q 17 A3P - - e gb - S17 # I don't know which naming is more common # SN28931110 seen as "A3P Senior Seventeen" (name on barrel wheel and dial) on ebay 195219335 # SN29179011 seen as "A3P" on ebay 201365950 # SN27803346 said to be marked "17j Senior Seventeen A3P" on ebay 207357751 478 ? 16 - 3/4 o n 15 l q 21 A5P WI - b gb BWR # identical to the 472, except w/o the "invar balance" 479 ? 14 12 3/4 o n 4 p q 17 A - - e gb # 1950 MC says "streamline" and "12x16s hands" 480 ? 16 - 3/4 o f 7 p q 7 U - - f gb # 1950 MC says "16s-Auto" # SN28732022 seen as "3/4 o f 7 ? q 7j U - - f gb" on ebay 224944935 #481 ? 14 12 3/4 o n 4 p q 15 ? - - e gb # listed in 1950 MC, but not used, "streamline" 482 ? 16/0 - 3/4 - f 2 p q 15 U - - f gb # m=2 determined by Swigart's and ebay 261359340 # SN27914482 seen as "3/4 - f ? p q 15j U - - f gb" on ebay 261359340 483 ? 18/0 - 3/4 - f 1 p q 17 U-AT - - f gb # m=1 according to Swigart's # SN34904468 seen as "3/4 - f ? p q 17j AT - - f gb" on ebay 209067914 # SN33132796 seen as *not* marked "Adjusted" on ebay 273230736 # SN32103221 seen as *not* marked "Adjusted" on ebay 2291015837 484 ? 18/0 - 3/4 - n 1 p q 15 U - - f gb # m=1 as determined by Swigart's # SN33337790 seen *not* marked as "adjusted" on ebay 192540939 # SN33133070 seen *not* marked as "adjusted" on ebay 216632656 485 ? 4/0 - 3/4 h f 1 p q 7 U - - f gb # SN32618116 seen as "3/4 h f ? p q 7j U - - f gb" on ebay 206351618 # grade 485 said to be "model 1 of 4/0s" in Swigart book 486 ? 16 - 3/4 o n 13 l q 17 A3P - - e gb # SN30701106 seen as A3P on ebay 174004067 487 ? 4/0 - 3/4 h n 1 p q 15-17 A - - f gb # 1950 MC says 17j begins at SN32508001 # SN32699481 seen as "3/4 h n ? ? 17j U" on ebay 193890050 # 12/05/99 I think the U is wrong... # SN33477125 seen as "model 1 17j adj" on ebay 213169221 (not absolutely certain about the adjusted part) 488 ? 18/0 - 3/4 - f 1 p q 7 U - - f gb # M=1 was determined by Swigart's and ebay 221352868 # SN31970678 seen as "3/4 - f ? p 7j U" on ebay 194036226 # SN34560303 seen as "3/4 - f 1 p 1j U" on ebay 221352868 489 ? 6/0 - ? ? ? ? ? q 17 ? - - f gb 490 ? 22 - 3/4 o n 1 p q 7 U - 192 f gb 491 ? 12 - 3/4 o n 4 p q 19 A3P - - e gb # SN34347081 seen as "3/4 o n 4 p q 19 A3P-Temp - - e gb" on ebay 216379731 # SN34347882 seen as "3/4 o n 4 p q 19 A3P-Temp - - e gb" on ebay 492 ? 20/0 - 3/4 - n 1 p q 15 ? - - f gb # "3/4 ? ? 1 p q 15j ? - - f gb" determined by Swigarts # STYLE_NS and 15j determined by 1950 MC # EWC says that this is 17j # SN34629725 seen as "15j FINISH_NICKEL", no mention of "Adjusted" (blury pic) on ebay 235940833 493 ? 22 - 3/4 o f 1 p q 7 U - 192 f gb # SN34343108 seen as "3/4 o f 1 p q 7j u 192 f gb" (actually, it doesn't look like a "flat nickel", but a "black"...) on ebay 196784108 494 ? 16 - 3/4 o n 15 l q 23 A6P WI - b jb BWR # SN33595717 seen marked as "BWR WI A6P Motor barrel" but *not* "temperature" on ebay 162108144 # SN34766836 seen marked as "BWR WI Motor Barrel", said to be "A6P Temperature" on ebay 198768379 # SN34948994 seen marked as "BWR WI Motor Barrel", said to be "A6P Temperature" on ebay 198775403 # SN34766720 seen marked as "BWR WI Motor Barrel Temperature A6P" on ebay 211753174 495 ? 14 12 3/4 o n 4 p q 17 A-AT - - e gb # SN37106713 seen marked as "Adjusted Temperature" on ebay 205793754 # SN37104477 seen marked as "Adjusted" (no "temp") on ebay 223025609 # SN38304065 seen marked as "adjusted Temperature" on ebay 231262829 496 ? 14 12 3/4 o n 4 p q 7 U - - f gb # SN35273420 seen as "3/4 o n 4 p q 7 U - - f gb" on ebay 215776165 # 497 no info in 1950 MC 498 ? 12 - ? ? ? ? ? q 21 ? - - e gb # dial labelled "deluxe" 499 ? 6/0 - ? ? ? ? ? q 19 ? - - f gb # 500 no info in 1950 MC # 501 no info in 1950 MC 502 ? 4/0 - 3/4 s n 2 p q 7 U - - f gb # I'm going to call this "model 2" until I find out otherwise It is clearly different than the s-4/0 m=1 # SN34650951 seen as "3/4 s n ? p q 7 U - - f gb" on ebay 200982368 # 503 no info in 1950 MC 504 ? 20/0 - 3/4 - n ? p q 17 U - - f gb # SN35697791 seen *not* marked "Adjusted" on ebay 193087140 505 ? 37 - 3/4 o f 1 p q 7 U - 192 f gb # SN30582770 seen as "flat nickel" on ebay 304771113 506 ? 16 - 3/4 o n 15 l q 21 A6P WI - b gb BWR # grade 506 seems to be related to g=478. The first 6 runs are all the last 100 of a g=478 run. # shugarts says this is OF and BWR # SN34574489 seen as WI and "16s 3/4 o n 15 ? q 21j A6P WI - b gb" said to be lever set on ebay 289145694 # SN34205383 seen as not WI and "16s 3/4 o n 15 ? q 21j A6P - - b gb" also marked "temp", said to be lever set on ebay 313449409 # 507 no info in 1950 MC 508 ? 22 - 3/4 s n 1 p q 7 U - 192 f gb # 509 no info in 1950 MC # 510 no info in 1950 MC 511 ? ? - ? ? ? ? ? q ? ? - - ? ? # no info in 1950 MC 512 ? 26/0 - 3/4 - ? 1 p q 17 ? - - f gb # "3/4 ? ? 1 p q ? ? - - f gb" determined by Swigart's # STYLE_NS and j=17 determined by 1950 MC (Swigart's says 15j) 513 ? 26/0 - 3/4 - ? 1 p q 7 U - - f gb # "3/4 ? ? 1 p q ? ? - - f gb" determined by Swigart's # STYLE_NS and j=7 determined by 1950 MC (Swigart's says 15j) 514 ? 18/0 - ? s ? ? ? q 7 U - - f gb 515 ? ? - ? ? ? ? ? q ? ? - - ? ? # no info in 1950 MC #516 ? 4/0 - ? - ? ? ? q 15 ? - - ? gb # in 1950 MC, but not used, #517 ? 4/0 - ? - ? ? ? q 15 ? - - ? gb # in 1950 MC, but not used, #518 ? 4/0 - ? - ? ? ? q 15 ? - - ? gb # in 1950 MC, but not used, 519 ? 8/0 - 3/4 h f 1 p q 15 U - - f gb # SN38280129 see as "3/4 h f ? p q 15j U - - f gb" on ebay 252773118 # I'm guessing that m=1 because this is the first s=8/0 # 520 no info in 1950 MC 521 ? 21/0 - 3/4 - f 1 p q 15 ? - - f gb # SN37366887 seen as "21/0 3/4 ? f ? p q 15j ? - - f gb" on ebay 303489321 # I'm guessing that m=1 522 ? 18/0 - 3/4 s f 1 p q 15 U - - f gb # EWC says "13j", but 1950 MC lists "15j" # SN36705788 seen as "18/0s 3/4 s f 1 p q 15j U - - f gb" on ebay 305106996 523 ? 21/0 - ? - ? ? ? q 15 ? - - f gb 524 ? 8/0 - ? ? ? ? ? q 15 ? - - f gb # 525 no info in 1950 MC 526 ? 8/0 - 3/4 h ? ? p q 7 U - - f gb # SN36282688 seen as "3/4 h ? ? p q 7j ? - - f gb" (blury pics) on ebay 280930694 527 ? 16 - 3/4 o n 13 l q 19 A3P - - e gb # SN41730654 seen as "16s - 3/4 o n ? ? q 19j ? - - e gb", model looks like either 7 or 13. pic of mvt too blury to tell much else. said to be "3 adjusts" ebay 262019933 # SN42863424 seen as "16s - 3/4 o n 13 L q 19j A3P - - e gb" on ebay 317965445n # 528 no info in 1950 MC 529 ? 21/0 - 3/4 - f 1 p q 15 ? - - f gb # SN36466875 seen as "21/0 3/4 ? f ? p q 15j ? - - f gb" on ebay 303489321 # I'm guessing that m=1 # 530 no info in 1950 MC 531 ? 8/0 - 3/4 h n 7 p q 21 U - - f gb # m=7 guess based on Swigart's and ebay 243218692 # SN37129894 seen as "3/4 h n ? p 21j U - - f gb" on ebay 199934834 532 ? 8/0 - 3/4 s n 2 p q 16 U - - f gb # "3/4 s 2 p q 16j ? - - f gb" according to the 1950 MC insert # according to swigarts, it is m=8 and j=15 (I'm using m=2 from 1950 MC insert...) # g=532 is sometimes put in small silver cased "nurses watches" # SN38993790 seen as *not* marked "adjusted" (nor 16j) on ebay 233970732 533 ? 21/0 - 3/4 - f 2 p q 17 U-A1P - - f gb DLX # "3/4 ? ? 2 p q 17j ? - - f gb" according to the 1950 MC insert # STYLE_NS determined by 1950 MC # ebay 192300893 says "model 533 17j deluxe" # SNJ933915 seen marked as "17j A1P 3/4 plate flat-nickel finish Deluxe" on ebay 190760296 # SNL560039 seen marked as "17j", but *not* marked Adjusted on ebay 212728811 # SNL575962 seen marked as "17j", but *not* marked Adjusted on ebay 214413227 534 ? ? - ? ? ? ? ? q ? ? - - ? ? # no info in 1950 MC 535 ? 21/0 - 3/4 - f 2 p q 19 U - - f gb # "3/4 ? ? 2 p q 19j ? - - f gb" according to the 1950 MC insert # STYLE_NS determined by 1950 MC # SN37325519 seen as "21/0s 3/4 - f 2 p q 19j U - - f gb" on ebay 296112213 536 ? 15/0 - 3/4 h f 1 p q 15 U - - f gb # SNX154554 seen as "3/4 h f ? p q 15j U - - f gb" on ebay 273240948 # m=1 is my guess (I have no record of a 15/0s m=1, later models have a higher grade #) 537 ? 15/0 - 3/4 h f 1 p q 17 U - - f gb # SNX91203 seen as "3/4 h f ? p q 17j U - - f gb" on ebay 220908079 # m=1 is my guess (I have no record of a 15/0s m=1, later models have a higher grade #) 538 ? 15/0 - ? ? ? ? ? q 23 ? - - f gb # 1950 MC shows 23j # SNX215189 said to be "21j" on ebay 217656274 539 ? 8/0 - 3/4 s f 2 h q 15-16 U - - f gb # sometimes used by the military # "3/4 s ? 2 p q 16j ? - - f gb" according to the 1950 MC insert related to the 532, only with extra parts # ebay 206027884 (wingold) says that these were sometimes used for "WWI Frogman" watches (and of course you should believe everything in an ebay description...:-) # military watch marked "A.F.U.S. ARMY - TYPE A-11 - SPEC. NO. 94-27834-B - SER. NO. AF45-13546 - MFR'S PART NO. 2114 - ORD. NO. W33-038ac 6600 - ELGIN." said to be "15j 539" on ebay 221055991 # SNT425582 seen as *not* marked "Adjusted" and said to be 16j on ebay 220025513 (It has very similar case markings as the above 221055991) # SNY780626 seen marked "15j" on ebay 226116612 # SNT221550 seen marked "16j" on ebay 226116612 540 ? 16 - 3/4 o n 15 l q 23 A5P - - b jb BWR # some of these are in military cases # SN3042542 seen marked as "BWR A5P motor barrel 23j" on ebay 204407449 # later (01/11/00) I have no idea what that SN is supposed to be... # SN39386433 seen marked as "BWR A5P motor barrel 23j Temperature" on ebay 232093555 # SN38780781 said to be marked "BWR A5P motor barrel 23j Temperature" on ebay 185681601 (auction ended long ago, no pics now) 541 ? 21/0 - 3/4 - ? 2 p q 15 ? - - f gb # "3/4 ? ? 2 p q 15j ? - - f gb" according to the 1950 MC insert # STYLE_NS determined by 1950 MC 542 ? 14 10 3/4 o f 5 p q 17 U-A3P - - f gb DLX # elgin doc list says this is model 5 or 6 # SNJ83309 seen as "deluxe A2P 17j" on ebay 207853574 # SNE208890 seen as "deluxe 17j" but *not* marked adjusted on ebay 212510953 # SNL489646 seen as "deluxe 17j" but *not* marked adjusted on ebay 215529079 # SNP944932 said to be "DLX 17j A3P" on ebay 176947203 # SNP942008 seen as "DLX 17j A3P" on ebay 219261096 # SNE449735 seen as "DLX 17j", but *not* marked adjusted on ebay 220512366 543 ? 14 10 3/4 o f 5 p q 21 A4P-A5P - - b gb LE # elgin doc list says this is model 5 or 6 # SNL472489 clearly marked "543 21j Adj. 5 Pos" on ebay 245566170 544 ? 16 - 3/4 s n 15 h q 21-22 A5P WI - b gb BWR # no info in 1950 MC # APWB-E says "16s - ? s n 19 p q 21j A5P BWR" (m=19 means WI, so I changed it to m=15) # SN39516482 seen as "16s - 3/4 s n 15 p q A5P 21j A5P - - b gb BWR" said to be hack set. Marked "21j", but has an extra jewel for the sweep sec ebay 311395863 545 ? ? - ? ? ? ? ? q ? ? - - ? ? # not in John Miller's list no info in 1950 MC 546 ? 14 10 3/4 o n 5 p q 15 U-A1P - - f gb # elgin doc list says this is model 5 or 6 547 ? 21/0 - 3/4 s ? 3 p q 16 ? - - f gb # "3/4 s ? 2 p q 15j ? - - f gb" according to the 1950 MC insert # 15j is claimed by Swigart's # 548 no info in 1950 MC # 549 no info in 1950 MC # 550 no info in 1950 MC # 551 no info in 1950 MC # 552 no info in 1950 MC 553 ? 22 - 3/4 s n 1 p q 16 ? - 192 f gb 554 ? 8/0 - 3/4 h f 7 p q 15 U-A1P - - f gb # m=7 determined by 1950 MC insert # on ebay 197986841, claim of "SNN711237 554 17j A1P" dial not marked LE # SNN660573 seen as "3/4 h f ? p q 15j A1P - - f gb" on ebay 211995520 # SNL186323 seen as "554 15j" and *not* marked "Adjusted" on ebay 299557407 555 ? 8/0 - 3/4 h f 7 p q 17 U-A1P - - f gb LE DLX - # m=7 determined by 1950 MC insert # SNH266307 said to be "17j A1P LE" on ebay 193384734 # SNE336722 said to be "17j DLX" on ebay 219033672 # SNI815636 seen as "555 17j DLX" pic is blury, but I don't see it marked "Adj'd" on ebay 258308337 # SNL693333 seen as "namel